Driver and Donkey of the British GP

**Mr Alca-Tazizzle** · 14th Jul 12, 23:13

Originally Posted by kfzmeister

This clarification is in direct relation to the two aggressive moves Rosberg made in Bahrain against Ham and Zo....

I stand corrected

The ruling comes after several controversial incidents this year in which drivers have vigorously defended their positions and in some cases forced challenging rivals off the circuit.

One of the most publicised of these cases came at the Bahrain Grand Prix when Nico Rosberg of Mercedes robustly defended his position from attacks, or attempts to pass, by Lewis Hamilton in a McLaren and then Fernando Alonso of Ferrari.

Both challenging drivers felt aggrieved at the way in which Rosberg moved his car to defend his position, forcing them to run wide and in Hamilton's case off the circuit completely.

The race stewards investigated the incidents at the time and took no action because it was said that no "significant part" of either Hamilton or Alonso's cars was alongside Rosberg at the time./
The clarification means also that Rosberg can rest easy because in both cases in Bahrain he defended his position without breaking the rules.

**airshifter** · 15th Jul 12, 15:06

Short version of the above. Fred and Lewis did some crying that Nico didn't just move over for them.

**SGWilko** · 15th Jul 12, 20:08

Originally Posted by henners88

In hindsight both drivers should have pulled to the side of the track and thought long and hard about how they were going to take the corner. Sod trying to do it at 130mph side by side and arcing each other, take their time and consider all the outcomes.

The marshalls should be on hand to make a pot of tea - maybe some scones, clotted cream and jam as well?

**The Black Knight** · 16th Jul 12, 11:10

Originally Posted by henners88

In hindsight both drivers should have pulled to the side of the track and thought long and hard about how they were going to take the corner. Sod trying to do it at 130mph side by side and arcing each other, take their time and consider all the outcomes.

Clearly some people here have never even sat into a kart not to mind a proper racing car. Another more quality driver like Alonso or Hammy would not have done this. You can't be making allowances for other drivers erratic behavior in F1. You see a gap you must go for it. You have to assume that since they are in F1 they are of a certain quality. Maldonado, unfortunately, bought his way into F1 and has the look of a driver that is quite far from the finished product. He's moderately talented but combining this with him having no brain is just a recipe for disaster. I said after Monaco last year and his coming together with Hamilton that it wouldn't be the last of these kind of accidents that he we see involving Pastor and I was correct. I'm sure there will be more to come as well.

Sergio went to overtake legitimately. Pastor, unintentionally, lost the car and ran into him. Pastors fault. Everything else - smoke and mirrors.

**Malbec** · 16th Jul 12, 12:56

Originally Posted by The Black Knight

You can't be making allowances for other drivers erratic behavior in F1. You see a gap you must go for it. You have to assume that since they are in F1 they are of a certain quality. Maldonado, unfortunately, bought his way into F1 and has the look of a driver that is quite far from the finished product. He's moderately talented but combining this with him having no brain is just a recipe for disaster.

So F1 drivers must assume that other drivers are good enough even when they know they're not?

**kfzmeister** · 17th Jul 12, 03:48

Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Pastor, unintentionally, lost the car and ran into him.

Yeah, i can see what you're saying. After all, his move on Hamilton at Spa, on Perez in Monaco and his move on Hamilton in Valencia all were unintentional as well. He sure makes his own bed!

**kfzmeister** · 17th Jul 12, 03:50

Originally Posted by airshifter

Short version of the above. Fred and Lewis did some crying that Nico didn't just move over for them.

I thought it was pretty reckless. I mean Hamilton has been criticized for that sort of driving. Alonso, ....well he just doesn't drive like that.

**zako85** · 17th Jul 12, 07:34

In my view, this last Maldonado vs Perez crash was another racing incident. Both drivers chose to drive aggressively, but without breaking the rules IMHO. There was plenty of space for both cars. Then Maldonado lost his car. The fact the Maldonado lost the car in the turn was what caused the contact. I don't think either driver should have been punished. Was it smart for Maldonado to push his car to the limits this way? Probably no. This was an unsound judgement call. I think he will learn with more experience to avoid such calls, or perish. Running on fresher tires he still had a good chance to catch up with Perez, if he let Perez overtake at first.

**The Black Knight** · 17th Jul 12, 10:23

Originally Posted by Malbec

So F1 drivers must assume that other drivers are good enough even when they know they're not?

"If You No Longer Go For A Gap, You Are No Longer A Racing Driver" - Ayrton Senna!

**F1boat** · 17th Jul 12, 10:30

Originally Posted by The Black Knight

"If You No Longer Go For A Gap, You Are No Longer A Racing Driver" - Ayrton Senna!

Senna answered this to Stewart, as he tried to defend his multiple clashes with Alain Prost. Senna was a great driver, but sometimes he did unforgivable things and came with pseudo-wise crap like this.

**The Black Knight** · 17th Jul 12, 11:42

Originally Posted by F1boat

Senna answered this to Stewart, as he tried to defend his multiple clashes with Alain Prost. Senna was a great driver, but sometimes he did unforgivable things and came with pseudo-wise crap like this.

I'm well aware Senna answered that to Stewart as I'm sure is everyone. The point is, that you need to go for a gap if it's there otherwise you'll never get by. Saying that it was Perez's fault because he chose to attempt an overtaking maneuver on a guy he knew might clash with him is absolutely ridiculous. You don't get to F1 by holding back pussy footing around hoping the other guy makes a mistake. You get to it by seizing every opportunity. Sergio was not wrong to attempt to overtake Pastor. Pastor was not wrong to defend but it was Pastor that made the mistake while doing this due to his lack of ability. You never know when the driver in front is going to run out of talent so you take your opportunity to get by as soon as it presents itself regardless of whether or not he is an idiot otherwise you're just stuck behind him indefinitely.

**Bagwan** · 17th Jul 12, 13:51

Originally Posted by The Black Knight

"If You No Longer Go For A Gap, You Are No Longer A Racing Driver" - Ayrton Senna!

Sergio went for that gap , and had every right to do so .
Pastor did , too , and also had every right to do so .

Both are racing drivers .

**SGWilko** · 17th Jul 12, 14:12

Originally Posted by F1boat

Senna answered this to Stewart, as he tried to defend his multiple clashes with Alain Prost. Senna was a great driver, but sometimes he did unforgivable things and came with pseudo-wise crap like this.

It was specifically in answer, having been questioned by Stewart about the McLaren team mates coming together at Suzuka 1989.

This of course, as we all know, was when Balestre suggested drivers double back if they go into the escape road to avoid disqualification.

1990's collision at Suzuka, was due to Balestre's favouritism to Prost by moving the pole spot....

Nice try though!

**SGWilko** · 17th Jul 12, 14:13

Originally Posted by Bagwan

Sergio went for that gap , and had every right to do so .
Pastor did , too , and also had every right to do so .

Both are racing drivers .

To suggest they both were going for the same gap hints that a third party was involved....

Shergar?

**Malbec** · 17th Jul 12, 16:23

Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Saying that it was Perez's fault

Black and white thinking again?

Did I say it was Perez's fault?

Any interpretation of the regulations would find that collision was merely a racing incident or Maldonaldo's fault and that Perez was not at fault. But we're not talking about black and white, right and wrong here. I'm asking whether it was a wise decision or not which is a very different matter entirely, and your very own posts eloquently explain why it wasn't wise, in fact it was a rather stupid move on Perez' part.

Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Sergio was not wrong to attempt to overtake Pastor. Pastor was not wrong to defend but it was Pastor that made the mistake while doing this due to his lack of ability. You never know when the driver in front is going to run out of talent so you take your opportunity to get by as soon as it presents itself regardless of whether or not he is an idiot otherwise you're just stuck behind him indefinitely.

And do you do that by placing yourself exactly where you would be taken off by the driver in front if/when he runs out of talent?

Was that a wise move do you think?

**Malbec** · 17th Jul 12, 17:00

Originally Posted by The Black Knight

"If You No Longer Go For A Gap, You Are No Longer A Racing Driver" - Ayrton Senna!

Except that Senna never lived by this rule. Nor did any other driver you can classify as a true great.

Truly great drivers know when discretion is the better part of valour and when to really go for it.

Those who live by Senna's maxim have short careers littered with shards of carbon fibre, usually their own.

**kfzmeister** · 18th Jul 12, 01:18

Originally Posted by Bagwan

Sergio went for that gap , and had every right to do so .

That's quite a "gap" he went for!

**airshifter** · 18th Jul 12, 02:50

Originally Posted by Bagwan

Sergio went for that gap , and had every right to do so .
Pastor did , too , and also had every right to do so .

Both are racing drivers .

Well really, once one car is in the space (in this case Sergio) the gap no longer exists, thus the other driver can't go for it. This is what causes the collision, going for a gap that no longer exists!

In this case racing incident, but I don't think Pastor even tried to make the corner very hard. He was jumping into the already closed gap to try to defend IMO, and did it a bit late.

**Bagwan** · 18th Jul 12, 12:19

Originally Posted by airshifter

Well really, once one car is in the space (in this case Sergio) the gap no longer exists, thus the other driver can't go for it. This is what causes the collision, going for a gap that no longer exists!

In this case racing incident, but I don't think Pastor even tried to make the corner very hard. He was jumping into the already closed gap to try to defend IMO, and did it a bit late.

According to Pastor , he lost the front end , and then the back .

If he hadn't lost either , and had managed the grip he needed , there was space left inside .

If that had happened , we might all be lauding the brave effort of the young Mexican , daring to drive around the outside of a driver on cold tires .