Thread: Who thinks Schumacher finally should retire?

It's funny. Michael's supporters use his titles & race win stats to convince anyone prepared to listen that he's the greatest F1 driver there has ever been, and yet, for some reason, they are prepared to ignore his post comeback stats.

More than two years in he has accumulated just one podium finish. He has been out scored by his teammate each season. This year he has just 23 points, whereas Rosberg has 75. In teammate comparison terms it could be argued that he's performing at at Massa or Senna level.

Yes, luck and circumstance have played their part in Michael's lack of results, but they always do for every driver. That has to be taken into account, but we're not just talking about one season here.

Alguersuari & Buemi were given three years to prove themselves at Toro Rosso. Why should Micheal be given a fourth year? How are things going to change & improve?

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

It's funny. Michael's supporters use his titles & race win stats to convince anyone prepared to listen that he's the greatest F1 driver there has ever been, and yet, for some reason, they are prepared to ignore his post comeback stats.

More than two years in he has accumulated just one podium finish. He has been out scored by his teammate each season. This year he has just 23 points, whereas Rosberg has 75. In teammate comparison terms it could be argued that he's performing at at Massa or Senna level.

It would be a pretty weak argument.

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Yes, luck and circumstance have played their part in Michael's lack of results, but they always do for every driver. That has to be taken into account, but we're not just talking about one season here.

Contracts are signed on current form. Or don't you think Webber should have re-signed either, seeing as last season counts?

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Alguersuari & Buemi were given three years to prove themselves at Toro Rosso. Why should Micheal be given a fourth year? How are things going to change & improve?

Red Bull's driver farming team doesn't form a valid comparison.

Originally Posted by henners88

Any criticism of Schuey whether constructive or not is usually greeted with a stern defence with circumstances that cannot be applied to any other driver in my experience.

Any criticism of Hamilton whether constructive or not is usually greeted with a stern defence with circumstances that cannot be applied to any other driver in my experience.

Any criticism of Vettel whether constructive or not is usually greeted with a stern defence with circumstances that cannot be applied to any other driver in my experience.

Any criticism of Alonso whether constructive or not is usually greeted with a stern defence with circumstances that cannot be applied to any other driver in my experience.

Any criticism of Maldonado whether constructive or not is usually greeted with a stern defence with circumstances that cannot be applied to any other driver in my experience.

Any criticism of Petrov whether constructive or not is usually greeted with a stern defence with circumstances that cannot be applied to any other driver in my experience.

You see what I did there?

Okay. I have been writing posts about replacing Schumacher before. And he is performing really well now, which creates a dilemma. Considering his age, I would think the only reason to keep him would be if he was beating Rosberg. And this is exactly, what he is doing right now. Let's see if he can keep it up. But if he was being beaten (even if he ran close), I would like to replace him with a current Force India junior or someone else for 2013.

Originally Posted by jens

Considering his age, I would think the only reason to keep him would be if he was beating Rosberg.

What about the other reason? His face sells Mercs in markets where his face is recognised as a sporting superstar. Thats something Rosberg can't do and nor can Di Resta (or whoever else is on the replacement list).

We can't ignore that marketing value is a strong component of what keeps Michael's seat his (though I agree with you, this season he is more than justifying his place).

Originally Posted by Matthew

It would be a pretty weak argument.

Perhaps, but the gap in points between Alonso/Massa and Maldonado/Senna is comparable with Rosberg/Schumacher IMHO.

Originally Posted by Matthew

Contracts are signed on current form. Or don't you think Webber should have re-signed either, seeing as last season counts?

Webber had a very strong 2010 season. He struggled last year but has come back very strongly this season. His situation is different to Schumacher IMHO.

Originally Posted by Matthew

Red Bull's driver farming team doesn't form a valid comparison.

Why? Their two drivers were given three years to perform. If you view Schumacher as you would any other driver, and if contracts are signed on current form, as opposed to being based on past achievements, then Schumacher has not done enough to retain his seat IMHO.

Originally Posted by Malbec

What about the other reason? His face sells Mercs in markets where his face is recognised as a sporting superstar. Thats something Rosberg can't do and nor can Di Resta (or whoever else is on the replacement list).

We can't ignore that marketing value is a strong component of what keeps Michael's seat his (though I agree with you, this season he is more than justifying his place).

Oh yes, marketing is an important reason indeed. I feel that marketing was one of the main reasons, why Michael was hired in the first place, because his sporting form must have been a big questionmark anyway. And especially as Mercedes is a midfield team (sort of), they need any attention they can get. If they could genuinely fight for the titles, they would need less marketing based on names and can afford more marketing based on raw results and popularity that derives from it.

I have to admit though that in my previous post I was largely arguing from driver's (future) performance point of view.

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Perhaps, but the gap in points between Alonso/Massa and Maldonado/Senna is comparable with Rosberg/Schumacher IMHO.

But Massa, at least, has generally performed badly this year. Schumacher's points deficit would be much less were it not for the numerous mechanical problems he's suffered. His own performances have been far superior to most of Massa's.

Schumacher has already shown he has much higher potential than Buemi and Alguersauri. I was thinking of his first career but now I think of it, his second career too, for I don't think Buemi or Alguersuari have ever put in a race performance that would put them 30sec up the road from Nico, as Schumacher is often doing.

Also for those of you (I mean you Johnny Herbert ) who suggest Rosberg is and always was better than Schumacher, I'll wait to see Nico make a comeback at 41 years of age after 3 years in retirement and see how he gets on.

Based on talent I can think of about 2 or 3 other drivers that should give it up before Mike, after they are vetted than we can get on to truly talented pilots like Schumacher. JMHO

Originally Posted by Dr Giacomo Rappaccini

Based on talent I can think of about 2 or 3 other drivers that should give it up before Mike...

And they would be...?

Narain Karthikeyan, Pedro de la Rosa
Not that I think these two should quit, only judging on talent they don't match Mike. My point is why are we even having this coversation? HRT wants PdR and NK. Mercedes seem to want Mike and that is reason enough!

I didn't say that PdR is doing a bad job, only that I think Mike has more talent. As I implied in my previous post teams have reasons for employing the drivers they do. HRT has a Spaniard, and an Indian for what I think is sponsorship, and national interest reasons. Would they have better drivers if the car was more competitive, probably (at least NK)? Mercedes has the best of worlds, a positive marketing as well as racing commodity. Can you blame Brawn for:

As far as Brawn is concerned, the team are prepared to give the German as long as he needs to make up his mind, although there is a feeling Schumacher is having fun and so should continue.

Mercedes hint at another season for Schumacher - RTÉ Sport

Originally Posted by Dr Giacomo Rappaccini

My point is why are we even having this coversation? HRT wants PdR and NK. Mercedes seem to want Mike and that is reason enough!

Very true. Entirely up to them. However, this thread posed a question.

A driver is very fortunate to get the opportunity to pick a time to retire. More often than not the decision is made for them and it's not a time of their choosing. Most would continue as long as they can. Michael was fortunate to get a second chance to race in F1 and he clearly loves doing it. He's seemingly a more relaxed character these days, and his enjoyment is clear. That's great. But I am reminded of the career of Graham Hill. Hill was a great talent, but it's generally accepted that he raced on too long. Not qualifying at Monaco, where he had been the master, was sad to see and ultimately it prompted his retirement.

Michael hasn't reached that position yet, but I hope he makes the decision to retire before he does.

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Very true. Entirely up to them. However, this thread posed a question.

A driver is very fortunate to get the opportunity to pick a time to retire. More often than not the decision is made for them and it's not a time of their choosing. Most would continue as long as they can. Michael was fortunate to get a second chance to race in F1 and he clearly loves doing it. He's seemingly a more relaxed character these days, and his enjoyment is clear. That's great. But I am reminded of the career of Graham Hill. Hill was a great talent, but it's generally accepted that he raced on too long. Not qualifying at Monaco, where he had been the master, was sad to see and ultimately it prompted his retirement.

Michael hasn't reached that position yet, but I hope he makes the decision to retire before he does.

I understand your posture in this matter, and respect it, however I am indifferent to Mike and believe I have a very neutral perception of him. I get the impression that he has a pretty good handle on whether he has it or not. Plus TBH I'm not really worried about his reputation. I think he knows that he may have compromised his legacy a little, but that is up to him IMO. It is obvious to me that he cares more about racing in F1 at 43 than how his comeback will affect his overall reputation. I'm not interested in him protecting his image; however I understand that many enthusiasts are.
So after all that my short answer is no I don't think Schumacher finally should retire

Originally Posted by Dr Giacomo Rappaccini

I understand your posture in this matter, and respect it, however I am indifferent to Mike and believe I have a very neutral perception of him. I get the impression that he has a pretty good handle on whether he has it or not. Plus TBH I'm not really worried about his reputation. I think he knows that he may have compromised his legacy a little, but that is up to him IMO. It is obvious to me that he cares more about racing in F1 at 43 than how his comeback will affect his overall reputation. I'm not interested in him protecting his image; however I understand that many enthusiasts are.

And that, basically, was once what Graham Hill said about carrying on: that the level of his performances seemed to upset others more than it did him.

Schumi got his second podium of the year earlier today:
www.showmanager.eu

Just curious (I see Patrese also made the podium) was their charity funds raised by them?

Possibly, I don't know. The event took place at Corinna Schumacher's facility in Switzerland - Welcome at CS RANCH | Reining Horses