Pirelli defend tyres after Schumacher blast

**SGWilko** · 21st May 12, 09:22

Originally Posted by aki13

This

A few thoughts..

I saw a reference to Abu Dabi 2010. Which I agree was a terrible race, but of course alot of races that season were great.
Same with 2004, it wasn't vintage but these years there were good races, and DRS and Pirellis would have struggled to stop Ferrari in all likelyhood.

So its not case as some seem to make it that F1 was terrible then and great now, and visa versa great then terrible now.

Now I have made my feelings clear before about DRS, and that I would prefer it to be gone.

I like the concept of Pirelli tyres as it makes for a more varied race, than the later bridgestones, when softs could last the whole race. However I do feel they have maybe gone a tad too far.

That said unlike some, although I have a 10% doubt about the tyres, I still think F1 is great. And think despite our slight differences in opinion most here would love F1 no matter what the rules and regs.

F1 was great before Pirelli and DRS, and F1 is great now with DRS and Pirelli, its just a matter of personal preference. It doesn't mean we are head to head.

DRS was originally a concept born from use on the front wings. It was felt that, whilst it aided the drivers dial out understeer as the tyres wore, it did not give the benefit it was originally intended to give.

So we got the the DRS as it is now. Effectively, I think opinion on its use was swayed by the benefits first demonstrated with the F-Duct. What I do think, is that the FIA got it wrong first time around, and became a foregone conclusion at most tracks, that DRS would aid an overtake.

They seem to be learning, and it is now becoming less easy to get mugged on the straights. I still see a lot of non DRS overtaking.

I guess we are stuck with it, so there really is no point crying over spilled milk.

**F1boat** · 21st May 12, 09:26

Originally Posted by henners88

When I see you make the claim once again ioan that Pirelli are failing to deliver a race tyre yet Bridgestone did it with ease I am just left wondering if you are being deliberately provocative? You know full well what the mandate was, set by the FIA ioan, and yet you keep repeating this point over and over. Then again do you understand it? Pirelli were not just asked to copy Bridgestone and so far have failed, they were given a totally different brief altogether. I've lost count how many times this has been explained to you.

From what I understand the FIA asked Pirelli to produce tires, which will make the races similar to the 2010 Canadian Grand Prix

I think that they have done the job and I am absolutely sure that nobody will seriously think that these F1 tires are representative of the quality of the product which Pirelli sells to road cars.

**wedge** · 21st May 12, 13:56

Originally Posted by ioan

How long before the Pireli board give Hembery the boot?!
One can't read Autosport without an almost daily attempt from Hembery to defend his crappy tires, while people keep talking about how they seemingly can't produce a competitive race tire, something that Bridgestone did with such ease.

I highly doubt it.

More like mission accomplished when you reach a mass audience, the majority of which according to our favourite forumite Garry Walker have an IQ level lower than 80:

I buy a couple of croissants, settle at a table and sort a few words and photos before stepping into a familiarly orange tube. We reach Gatwick on time and I take the train to East Croydon prior to catching a Beckenham-bound tram. As I board, I can hear two passing blokes talking quite loudly: "Yes, but did you see how Kimi Räikkönen was catching Alonso by two seconds per lap towards the end of the race?"

The voices fade as the doors close, but there's a visible hint of animation about their continuing debate. It's been a long time since F1 was quite so unpredictable, but the wider world seems to like it.

F1 diary: Spanish grand prix - Telegraph

**SGWilko** · 21st May 12, 16:21

Originally Posted by wedge

I highly doubt it.

More like mission accomplished when you reach a mass audience, the majority of which according to our favourite forumite Garry Walker have an IQ level lower than 80:

Bloody hell - that quote suggests someone went to Croydon.......

.....and survived!

Believe me, whenever I've had to visit our DR site at Croydon, the dweebs, richard heads and morons that you see along the pedestrian precinct (sometimes have to walk along it to get to Craplin) is astonishing.

Not a nice place.

**ArrowsFA1** · 21st May 12, 17:03

Originally Posted by ioan

No matter how much the average Joe will love the total unpredictability of the races...

World Drivers Championship Standings:

Vettel
Alonso
Hamilton
Raikkonen
Webber
Button

World Constructors Championship Standings:

Red Bull
McLaren
Lotus
Ferrari
Mercedes
Williams

This 'disastrous Pirelli induced unpredictable shambles' is not reflected in the championship standings.

**ioan** · 21st May 12, 22:31

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

World Drivers Championship Standings:

Vettel
Alonso
Hamilton
Raikkonen
Webber
Button

World Constructors Championship Standings:

Red Bull
McLaren
Lotus
Ferrari
Mercedes
Williams

This 'disastrous Pirelli induced unpredictable shambles' is not reflected in the championship standings.

Maldonado wins a race beating Alonso. Ahem. Business like usual, huh?

**ioan** · 21st May 12, 22:33

Originally Posted by wedge

I highly doubt it.

More like mission accomplished when you reach a mass audience, the majority of which according to our favourite forumite Garry Walker have an IQ level lower than 80:

You know what's worse? Garry's fully right.

**BDunnell** · 22nd May 12, 00:02

Originally Posted by ioan

Maldonado wins a race beating Alonso. Ahem. Business like usual, huh?

In no sense did Maldonado not deserve that race win. And there is a way in which it was business like usual — there have occasionally been races in which there have been unexpected, yet still genuine, winners. It is precisely because it was unexpected that Maldonado's victory came as such a wonderful surprise. I fail to understand why this is a troublesome concept.

**wedge** · 22nd May 12, 00:29

Originally Posted by BDunnell

In no sense did Maldonado not deserve that race win. And there is a way in which it was business like usual — there have occasionally been races in which there have been unexpected, yet still genuine, winners. It is precisely because it was unexpected that Maldonado's victory came as such a wonderful surprise. I fail to understand why this is a troublesome concept.

Yes it was a deserved win but was it a warranted win to the point that inconsistent tyres has so far given inconsistent and therefore unpredictable results.

A decade ago F1 was at its lowest ebb and the likes of McLaren of keeping the purity of F1 being the pinnacle. Now the pendulum has swung to the other extreme and the fascination of keeping the audience entertained.

**airshifter** · 22nd May 12, 02:20

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

World Drivers Championship Standings:

Vettel
Alonso
Hamilton
Raikkonen
Webber
Button

World Constructors Championship Standings:

Red Bull
McLaren
Lotus
Ferrari
Mercedes
Williams

This 'disastrous Pirelli induced unpredictable shambles' is not reflected in the championship standings.

Nothing but a bunch of hacks. When we get new tires the good drivers and teams will rise to the top!

**ArrowsFA1** · 22nd May 12, 08:34

Originally Posted by wedge

Yes it was a deserved win but was it a warranted win to the point that inconsistent tyres has so far given inconsistent and therefore unpredictable results.

The championship standings do not support the idea that we are seeing "inconsistent and therefore unpredictable results" IMHO. If HRT were up there challenging then yes, but there hasn't been a dramatic change to the established order. Some may point at Williams because they were nowhere last season but that's not the tyres; it's a new design team having produced a fine car combined with them having the championship winning Renault engine. So yes, it was a warranted win IMHO.

**SGWilko** · 22nd May 12, 10:23

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Williams......Renault engine

That about sums it up for me. Williams know how to win, and they are back on their way up.

Caterham now have the Renault, but they are still very much building the team up.

But yes, I fear the Cosworth was very much the weak link in seasons past for WIlliams.

**F1boat** · 22nd May 12, 10:41

In the end every fan has to ask and answer for himself - do you prefer the races we have now or do you like the races we had in 2004, 2002, 2010 more? Do you want to have more overtaking or you prefer the "follow the leader" style of racing which we had until last year? Do you want to see many winners in different cars or one or two top-teams running away with it? In the end these are the questions who, at least in my opinion, matter. Some people I think have some ideal F1 in their head in which everything is unrestricted, drivers push to the limit, BUT have to be careful because some "natural" and not "artificial" things may happen. The reality is that this happened, from what I saw, in the early 80s. But it won't happen again. The teams are just too good, with too much money, too much everything. So, if we manage the series to be "pure" the end result will be very much something like the modern DTM racing - great looking cars, highly professional environment and dull, processional and very boring racing. I very much prefer what we have now to this and I think that for the Formula One World Championship it will be much healthier if it stays interesting, exciting and unpredictable even if it is not "pure" in the eyes of some people.

**ArrowsFA1** · 22nd May 12, 11:01

Originally Posted by F1boat

In the end every fan has to ask and answer for himself - do you prefer the races we have now or do you like the races we had in 2004, 2002, 2010 more?

F1 constantly evolves and changes. I don't think what we have now is ether better or worse than before. It's simply different, but I guess everyone has their favourites.

As a F1 fan I love the late 1960's period...then the Cosworth era of the 1970's & 80's...ground effects...turbos...the technical wizardry of the 90's...even Ferrari dominace was impressive in its own way

The Spanish GP had me on the edge of my seat from beginning to end. It's the first time that's happened in a very long time and, putting it bluntly, I don't particularly care why. The race had excitement, drama and skill. Can't ask for much more than that in a motor race IMHO.

**SGWilko** · 22nd May 12, 11:32

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

F1 constantly evolves and changes. I don't think what we have now is ether better or worse than before. It's simply different, but I guess everyone has their favourites.

As a F1 fan I love the late 1960's period...then the Cosworth era of the 1970's & 80's...ground effects...turbos...the technical wizardry of the 90's...even Ferrari dominace was impressive in its own way

The Spanish GP had me on the edge of my seat from beginning to end. It's the first time that's happened in a very long time and, putting it bluntly, I don't particularly care why. The race had excitement, drama and skill. Can't ask for much more than that in a motor race IMHO.

Indeed. SPain 2012 had a number of 'displaced' fast cars, and to see them coming through the field, along with a long awaited Williams win, was really quite something.

**wedge** · 22nd May 12, 12:07

Originally Posted by SGWilko

That about sums it up for me. Williams know how to win, and they are back on their way up.

Caterham now have the Renault, but they are still very much building the team up.

But yes, I fear the Cosworth was very much the weak link in seasons past for WIlliams.

Williams know how to win? And that's why Sam Michaels fell on his sword?

They've never made top cars. Suddenly gaining a second overnight going into the Spanish GP at Catalunya - the greatest test on a car's aero. I find it too good to be true.

Originally Posted by F1boat

In the end every fan has to ask and answer for himself - do you prefer the races we have now or do you like the races we had in 2004, 2002, 2010 more?

2002 - as I said earlier, arguably F1's lowest ebb in recent history.

2004 - yes Ferrari dominated but the battle for best of the rest was immensely enjoyable and the year Bunsen came to the fore.

2010 - good races and bad races, much like any other season. Final showdown was an anti-climax.

Quite frankly there was no need nor a valid excuse to mess with this year's tyres. Last year's construction was perfectly fine.

**F1boat** · 22nd May 12, 12:13

Originally Posted by wedge

Williams know how to win? And that's why Sam Michaels fell on his sword?

They've never made top cars. Suddenly gaining a second overnight going into the Spanish GP at Catalunya - the greatest test on a car's aero. I find it too good to be true.

2002 - as I said earlier, arguably F1's lowest ebb in recent history.

2004 - yes Ferrari dominated but the battle for best of the rest was immensely enjoyable and the year Bunsen came to the fore.

2010 - good races and bad races, much like any other season. Final showdown was an anti-climax.

Quite frankly there was no need nor a valid excuse to mess with this year's tyres. Last year's construction was perfectly fine.

Wedge, that's why I only asked the questions, Every fan must answer them for himself of herself. For me, 2012 is arguably the best start of a season I have witnessed, ever, and extremely enjoyable. If you like 2004 or 2010 better, fine, that's your point of view. But for me the current trend is better for the sport and its popularity. I guess that TV rating can confirm or deny this...

**ArrowsFA1** · 22nd May 12, 12:24

Originally Posted by wedge

Suddenly gaining a second overnight going into the Spanish GP at Catalunya - the greatest test on a car's aero. I find it too good to be true.

wedge, I'm not sure I understand. Maldonado's Williams was battling Alonso's Ferrari for position in Australia, as in Spain, and yet it's a shock?

**BDunnell** · 22nd May 12, 13:21

Originally Posted by wedge

Williams know how to win? And that's why Sam Michaels fell on his sword?

They've never made top cars.

Never? Not even in the seasons when Williams won the World Championship with demonstrably the best cars?

**wedge** · 22nd May 12, 13:30

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

wedge, I'm not sure I understand. Maldonado's Williams was battling Alonso's Ferrari for position in Australia, as in Spain, and yet it's a shock?

I'm not questioning Maldonado as a racer. It's his relative to the car's performance.

In Australia and the other races he was about a second off the leaders and then suddenly turns up at Barcelona fighting for pole - a track that tests the aerodynamics of the car.

Did Pirelli go too far?