Did Pirelli go too far?

**N4D13** · 15th Apr 12, 16:35

Here's something I wanted to share with you.

In the first three races of 2012, from what we've seen so far, it looks like having the fastest car isn't enough to win. It looks like rather than being outright fast, the most important thing seems to be getting the tyres to work, and a small change in temperature can have huge consequences on a car's handling and performance. Is this really what the sport should be about, and is it what we'd like to see? Personally, I'm a bit disappointed to see how these three first races have become sort of a lottery in which the car which can get its tyres into the optimal temperature window will win, even if it's not really fast. This was specially obvious in the Malaysian GP, with Ferrari and Sauber going faster just because they made the tyres work better on wet conditions, yet were basically nowhere in China. I wonder if, in Pirelli's intentions to make the championship more exciting, they went a step too far and made tyres which were simply unpredictable.

Of course, time will tell whether the teams will get on top of the tyres or not, but what we've seen so far from the 2012 Pirellis is a bit absurd, isn't it?

**steveaki13** · 15th Apr 12, 16:57

I don't know about that.

You raise an interesting point.

I just think circumstances of races have had some impact.

In Australia you always get a unpredictable race and Mclaren were the fastest and duely finished 3rd and 1st.
In Malaysia it was wet and stop start, so hard to judge.
In China Surely Mercedes and Mclaren were fastest and came back to the front, albeit with some struggles.

So I think we need to wait and see really.

**jens** · 15th Apr 12, 16:59

Originally Posted by N4D13

In the first three races of 2012, from what we've seen so far, it looks like having the fastest car isn't enough to win.

IMO this is a good thing. Otherwise the so-called fastest car would qualify at the front and run away with the race without competition. And most likely the fastest car would belong to the same team on most circuits.

I have to say Pirelli has done an impressive job, because they have outsmarted the teams for now and created them headaches.

Last year the tyres were deteriorating fast, but perhaps the tyre structure was not so complicated, so this is indeed, what we saw - fastest cars running away from others.

Chances are though that during the season top teams will figure out, how to get the best out of the tyres. And we would see more predictable races than now. A bit like in 2005, when early in the season all kinds of teams could be seen challenging for podiums (Toyota, Williams, RBR), but in the end McLaren and Renault comfortably dominated. So we have to enjoy the current situation, while it lasts.

**steveaki13** · 15th Apr 12, 17:11

Originally Posted by jens

I have to say Pirelli has done an impressive job,

Don't let Ioan hear you say that.

**donKey jote** · 15th Apr 12, 18:12

Tyres, what can I say ? ... I lurve that smell of burning rubber in the morgens

**fandango** · 15th Apr 12, 18:21

This is a very interesting point. But more and more F1 is about how quickly and efficiently a team can solve the problems during a race weekend, during a timed session, or even during a single lap! This is a good thing, I think, but then again some drivers probably suffer as a result of this. The one I would say most suffers, though, is Hamilton, as he is possibly the fastest over a single lap in ideal conditions, and he's leading the championship through three consistent third place finishes, so I think I'll have to wait and see (and not type before I've fully thought things out...!)

**djparky** · 15th Apr 12, 19:37

nope I think Pirelli are doing a fabulous job- they're providing tyres that force the drivers/teams to think on their feet and is impacting on the races- long may it continue. The alternative is the tedious boring processions we saw during the Bridgestone era

**i_max2k2** · 15th Apr 12, 20:25

I think Pirelli has stirred it up quite well, the fact is that, in the last decade it has all been about making the Tyres work, it became much easier in the last few years, and this year its a challenge for any one team to make it work in all conditions and this is very good, we get to see drivers true potential when the car does start working for them. I'd like to see this more often, then any one team running away with it

**ioan** · 15th Apr 12, 21:06

Don't get me started about this rubber manufacturer.
Durex could make better race tires if they weren't already into another rubber business.

**wedge** · 15th Apr 12, 23:18

First of all it should be unpredictable. Why watch a predictable race? Gary Anderson has pointed out that there is greater onus on the drivers to make the difference.

It's too early to raise this criticism. There are various reasons for the races and it's not like Massa has been in contention then something is wrong. The drivers who've won earned it.

We've only had 3 races and three totally different conditions, not to mention that we're still early in the car development cycle. A trend of some sort is likely to occur, IMO.

**BDunnell** · 15th Apr 12, 23:20

Originally Posted by wedge

First of all it should be unpredictable. Why watch a predictable race? Gary Anderson has pointed out that there is greater onus on the drivers to make the difference.

It's too early to raise this criticism. There are various reasons for the races and it's not like Massa has been in contention then something is wrong. The drivers who've won earned it.

We've only had 3 races and three totally different conditions, not to mention that we're still early in the car development cycle. A trend of some sort is likely to occur, IMO.

I agree completely. The drivers simply have to deal with the circumstances pertaining at the time.

**gloomyDAY** · 16th Apr 12, 06:25

Stop complaining.

**The Black Knight** · 16th Apr 12, 08:23

Originally Posted by jens

IMO this is a good thing. Otherwise the so-called fastest car would qualify at the front and run away with the race without competition. And most likely the fastest car would belong to the same team on most circuits.

I have to say Pirelli has done an impressive job, because they have outsmarted the teams for now and created them headaches.

Last year the tyres were deteriorating fast, but perhaps the tyre structure was not so complicated, so this is indeed, what we saw - fastest cars running away from others.

Chances are though that during the season top teams will figure out, how to get the best out of the tyres. And we would see more predictable races than now. A bit like in 2005, when early in the season all kinds of teams could be seen challenging for podiums (Toyota, Williams, RBR), but in the end McLaren and Renault comfortably dominated. So we have to enjoy the current situation, while it lasts.

I disagree completely. Motor racing should not be a lottery. It is a race they are driving i.e. The fastest driver in the fastet car should get to the finish first. While there is certainly room for tactics in F1 there is no longer room for a driver to showcase his skills as much. Do you honestly think Jenson Button would be as close as he is to Lewis Hamilton were they both able to drive flat out lap after lap? Not on your nelly and this is particularly evident in qualifying. The Pirelli's do a good job of bunching the cars up but they also do a good job of making lesser drivers look better than they are in a good car. If a team has done a great job and produced a great car, do you not think they deserve to be out front and win the WCC and one of their drivers the WDC? I think most will agree here that McLaren appear to have the fastest car this year overall but take for example Lewis in Australia, unable to switch the tyres on. Ferraris unable to switch their tyres on etc. It's a bit ridiculous.

For the average sunshine supporter on the street to just come in and see cars racing each other closely it looks great but, to me, whom is an avid F1 fan since I was a kid, the Pirelli tyres coupled with meddling by the officials and DRS continues to leave a worse and worse taste in my mouth.

**SlowSon** · 16th Apr 12, 09:02

We can't speak for lottery in 20 event season. No matter how rules change, the best drivers and engineers will always be on the top at the end of the year, but I want to see them struggling for that and proving they really deserve that.

**SGWilko** · 16th Apr 12, 09:05

Originally Posted by ioan

Don't get me started about this rubber manufacturer.
Durex could make better race tires if they weren't already into another rubber business.

Latex dear boy, latex. Not used rubber since Geronimo was in use.......

**SGWilko** · 16th Apr 12, 09:12

Originally Posted by The Black Knight

I disagree completely. Motor racing should not be a lottery.

I don't see it as a lottery TBH. The tyres are the same for all competitors, it is the cars that differ. The onus is on the teams to build a quick car that does not chew up tyres. What we have seen in the last couple of seasons is the guy out front, who does not have to overcook the tyres and set the pace can make them last. Back through the field, it is the defencive driving and trying to find a way past in dirty air that takes the life out of the tyres.

The drivers now have to be conscious of how they use the tyres. Compare Vettel to Kimi. Kimi has no experience of the Pirelli cliff edge, and suffered more that Vettel did when the tyres went....

For me, it spices up the show. DRS was not an overtake-easy tool in China, and I think that it was well implemented - it allowed the pass to be set up. Just look at some of the overtakes not in the DRS zone.

Nope - I think Pirelli have got it just about right.

**52Paddy** · 16th Apr 12, 11:54

Originally Posted by The Black Knight

For the average sunshine supporter on the street to just come in and see cars racing each other closely it looks great but, to me, whom is an avid F1 fan since I was a kid, the Pirelli tyres coupled with meddling by the officials and DRS continues to leave a worse and worse taste in my mouth.

I'm an avid F1 fan too and have been for 11 years. But our viewpoints differ. I like to see 'racing'. If unpredictable tyres provide good racing then I see it only as a positive move. Being fast is not the only ingredient in winning a race and, especially nowadays, I don't think it should be. Drivers have to deal with issues of strategy and many other variables and whoever manages these variables best on a given day is the deserved winner - not the fastest driver in the fastest car. Although tyres have not been this unpredictable in the past, there have been decades of F1 where slower cars have had an advantage in the overall scheme of things and you just have to get used to a new era (compare the turbo/NA battles during the 80s).

Originally Posted by SGWilko

I don't see it as a lottery TBH. The tyres are the same for all competitors, it is the cars that differ. The onus is on the teams to build a quick car that does not chew up tyres. What we have seen in the last couple of seasons is the guy out front, who does not have to overcook the tyres and set the pace can make them last.

Agree. This is what I'm saying above.

**52Paddy** · 16th Apr 12, 11:55

So

to Pirelli.

**airshifter** · 16th Apr 12, 12:06

So far I think Pirelli have been doing exactly what the sport wanted them to do. It does seem to me that at some races the choices for tires made by the FIA seem on the softer side and that leads to a lot of rubber off line very early in the race. But the tires themselves are doing what they are supposed to do IMO.

**wedge** · 16th Apr 12, 12:53

Originally Posted by The Black Knight

I disagree completely. Motor racing should not be a lottery. It is a race they are driving i.e. The fastest driver in the fastet car should get to the finish first. While there is certainly room for tactics in F1 there is no longer room for a driver to showcase his skills as much. Do you honestly think Jenson Button would be as close as he is to Lewis Hamilton were they both able to drive flat out lap after lap? Not on your nelly and this is particularly evident in qualifying. The Pirelli's do a good job of bunching the cars up but they also do a good job of making lesser drivers look better than they are in a good car. If a team has done a great job and produced a great car, do you not think they deserve to be out front and win the WCC and one of their drivers the WDC?

I think most will agree here that McLaren appear to have the fastest car this year overall but take for example Lewis in Australia, unable to switch the tyres on. Ferraris unable to switch their tyres on etc. It's a bit ridiculous.

Australia - JB, IMHO, is not a great driver but there or thereabouts and on his day can beat anyone and on that day he drove the perfect race. LH had bad start, bad luck with SC and his tyre management was marginally inferior.

Malaysia - yes, it arguably was a lottery but Alonso's drive was hallmark of a great driver. We've seen him fend off Schumi in an inferior Renault at the 2005 San Marino GP.
Gary Anderson & Mark Hughes both point the finger at chassis/set up, not to mention Perez being arguably a class driver:

The main one will be over the torsional stiffness of the car, because in the wet a more flexible structure is a more compliant car, which can be a benefit.

BBC Sport - Gary Anderson?s review of the F1 teams after two races

The mystery is why both the Ferrari and Sauber were faster than McLaren, Red Bull and Lotus - and that is almost certainly due to how each car was using its tyres in the crucial intermediate tyres phase (between laps 14-40). A feasible theory espoused by at least one prominent engineer was that the faster cars all had stiffer set-ups, with spring rates appropriate to downforce in excess of those generated by the Sauber and Ferrari (stiff springing will work the tyres less in the wet) - and that prevented them from reaching the particular threshold temperature needed to get the intermediate rubber working on the day.

Why Perez's Star Is In The Making | Features & Experts | Sky Sports Formula 1

China - Since winter testing MGP was predicted to be quick car certainly in quali trim but hard usage of tyres has traditionally been the achilles heel but they found the sweet spot.

Yes, the tyres have a sweet spot but its the same for everyone, its down to the teams and drivers, more so on the drivers to extract the best. This is why I err to dislike tyre wars because the tyre manufacturers will get the credit.