Thread: Did Pirelli go too far?

Originally Posted by F1boat

Ioan, who is always against the sport since Massa faded, gives is an example with ACO. So what ACO did. What's the pleasure in watching the WEC when you know that Audi's gonna win all the time. Where's the fun in that?

You obviously complete missed the point if you think that me watching F1 had/has anything to do with Massa or any other driver.
Then again it's funny to see who reacts vehemently with personal attacks to my comments where I didn't name any forum members.

Originally Posted by ioan

You obviously complete missed the point if you think that me watching F1 had/has anything to do with Massa or any other driver.
Then again it's funny to see who reacts vehemently with personal attacks to my comments where I didn't name any forum members.

Do you really claim to not understand that an insult directed at a large number of people remains an insult? You know full well many members here have no problems with the changes to the sport, yet you label them/us as "uneducated consumerism driven masses".

I named you by name, but made no such insults. I simply stated that I assumed you didn't care for the changes, even though they have gone on for many years. Quit playing victim after insulting people, and accept the fact that we don't all agree that change is bad. If you think there was any attack please report the post and see what an unbiased outside opinion thinks of who attacked who. You might also take note of the fact that several people support your view and were not named by name in my post. That's because they gave their opinions and discussed it like adults rather than sling insults at everyone who doesn't agree with them.

Originally Posted by AndyL

Personally I felt colder about it in past decades when if you had the wrong tyre supplier your chances were slim.

But still not impossible, at least when they get the DRS zones right. We've often seen faster cars stuck behind slower ones for many laps so it is still possible to defend, and a DRS pass is not a foregone conclusion. The Red Bulls and McLarens were held up by Raikkonen in China until his tyres were completely shot. What has changed is that your pace needs to be much closer to your opponent's in order to defend successfully. It's no longer possible to indefinitely block a car that's 2 seconds a lap faster. I'm not so sure that's a bad thing.

I don't like the philosophy of DRS and I'd rather they tackled the root of the problem - i.e. chop the wings off. But that's not happening any time soon. DRS may be a sticking-plaster solution but I'd rather see that than the open wound underneath it.

(my emphasis) Three points that sum my view neatly. If F1 is going to move on and stay relevant, 1/ a single, reliable tyre supplier is essential - going back to the bad old days of some teams favoured with good tyres and others not so would be retrograde (I dont doubt that there is favouritism going on now with even a single supplier - it's happening in MotoGP, and they almost always slavishly copy what F1 is up to, but at least it's not like the bad old days). 2/ The DRS seems to be here to stay, but the zones need to be sorted by someone who knows what racing is about, not a TV producer. Make DRS open slather and then stand well clear. 3/ Aero is where the greatest expense is mostly found (as you all know), so increasing reliance on mechanical grip and reducing aero grip would make for greater innovation and better racing.

Of course, neither of the last two points will happen any time soon, but - dare to dream...

Originally Posted by TheFamousEccles

(my emphasis) 3/ Aero is where the greatest expense is mostly found (as you all know), so increasing reliance on mechanical grip and reducing aero grip would make for greater innovation and better racing.

Problem here is that, although you can ban wings/make them benign, the designers will ultimately spend on the chassis, and how this can create more downforce. You cannot unlearn stuff!

Originally Posted by ioan

You obviously complete missed the point if you think that me watching F1 had/has anything to do with Massa or any other driver.
Then again it's funny to see who reacts vehemently with personal attacks to my comments where I didn't name any forum members.

And I name you. You despise F1. Why post here?
If this post is against the rules, I apologize to the forum moderators.

Originally Posted by AndyL

Personally I felt colder about it in past decades when if you had the wrong tyre supplier your chances were slim.

This. It was a ludicrous situation when the teams would turn up to what had been declared a "Bridgestone track" and if you happened to be signed up to their rivals you had very little chance of victory. Imagine now if those with Brembo brakes or Elf oil were handed an advantage, that would be stupid.

Originally Posted by Dave B

This. It was a ludicrous situation when the teams would turn up to what had been declared a "Bridgestone track" and if you happened to be signed up to their rivals you had very little chance of victory. Imagine now if those with Brembo brakes or Elf oil were handed an advantage, that would be stupid.

You are right. Ferrari suffered from this in 2005. Michelin had enormous advantage and Ferrari, as a team which ran on Bridgestone, suffered. Although Bridgestone made the 1997 Hungarian GP exciting, when Hill almost won.

Originally Posted by F1boat

You are right. Ferrari suffered from this in 2005. Michelin had enormous advantage and Ferrari, as a team which ran on Bridgestone, suffered. Although Bridgestone made the 1997 Hungarian GP exciting, when Hill almost won.

Ferrari had made their bed vis a vis Bridgestone and 2005 was them having to sleep in it. How Ferrari managed to beat the opposition at Indy that year is amazing......

It's always Ferrari's fault for some fans, I guess...

Originally Posted by airshifter

Do you really claim to not understand that an insult directed at a large number of people remains an insult? You know full well many members here have no problems with the changes to the sport, yet you label them/us as "uneducated consumerism driven masses".

I named you by name, but made no such insults. I simply stated that I assumed you didn't care for the changes, even though they have gone on for many years. Quit playing victim after insulting people, and accept the fact that we don't all agree that change is bad. If you think there was any attack please report the post and see what an unbiased outside opinion thinks of who attacked who. You might also take note of the fact that several people support your view and were not named by name in my post. That's because they gave their opinions and discussed it like adults rather than sling insults at everyone who doesn't agree with them.

Another one who confesses to consumerism. Thanks.

Originally Posted by F1boat

And I name you. You despise F1. Why post here?
If this post is against the rules, I apologize to the forum moderators.

Again you missed the whole point and are making it a personal fight.

Originally Posted by ioan

Another one who confesses to consumerism. Thanks.

You seem to enjoy stating things never stated by myself. If I "confessed" to consumerism, quote it. If you want to make up things and claim the superior stance, you'll find that the uneducated masses aren't nearly that easily fooled.

Let me make clear to you and anyone fooled by your claims, that you have no idea of my education, my likes or dislikes for the Formula 1 technical regs, and certainly not my stance on consumerism as it relates to any form of motor racing. Don't put words in my mouth as you certainly don't speak for me.

I use a very simple way of communicating with others. I actually listen and if they clarify their stance I accept that as their true intent. It's a very simple concept, you should try it some time. If they claim they never made such a statement, I quote it. Do you need me to quote your insults or would you rather pretend that they weren't insults?

Originally Posted by F1boat

It's always Ferrari's fault for some fans, I guess...

Can't blame them for monopolising what was, one year, the tyre manufacturer with the best tyres. However, this alienated the other 'Stones teams who defected to Michelin. It was inevitable that when Bibendum got it right, the only strong Bridgestone team would struggle......

I certainly would not lay the blame on British Telecom.........

Originally Posted by SGWilko

I certainly would not lay the blame on British Telecom.........

Haha, you made me smile, dear Sir Love the British sense of humour.

Originally Posted by ioan

Again you missed the whole point and are making it a personal fight.

No, not a personal fight. I defend my favorite sport and wonder what a hater of it is doing in this forum.

Originally Posted by F1boat

Haha, you made me smile, dear Sir Love the British sense of humour.

Our sense of humour is about the only good thing going for us these days!!!

Originally Posted by SGWilko

Our sense of humour is about the only good thing going for us these days!!!

McLaren are doing fine

People saying if you don't like DRS or whatever then don't watch F1 is really not helpful.

We are here to discuss our views on the tyres, DRS or whatever but we each have a valid opinion of what F1 should be.

Well I have followed F1 since I can remember really, early 90s, and just like some people didn't like active suspension, Turbos, re fuelling, no re fuelling. I happen to not like the way F1 has gone on DRS.

I like the tyres and disagree with Ioan on this, but that is our individual point of view which we are entitled too.

However we agree on DRS and both feel this is not the way F1 should be going. There are many other ways F1 could address the cars aero situation to enable cars to follow one an other more closely without making it unfair on one of the cars.

My point is that just because we don't like the way F1 is going with DRS while maybe 95% of you do like it, both sides of the arguement are valid, so to say we should just not watch the sport we have followed for years, is not really fair.

Things come and go in F1 and I am sure in 5 years DRS may have gone (it may not have of course), things roll around in F1, I just feel I will enjoy the racing more when DRS disappears.

F1 is for all, its easy to say it needs the fans who watch 5-10 races a year and want excitement, but it also needs the hardcore fans that watch every weekend and fill the grand stands with hard earned money. This point is nothing to do with DRS, just the wider point of F1 going Bernie's route. including DRS,tyres, losing classic venues and poor political decisions, all of which could harm F1's core following.

All in all I can see both sides of the DRS and Pirelli situation and know which side of the fence I sit on.

aki13, not all hardcore fans are against the changes. I follow F1 since 1992, and am a big fan since 1996. And I love the DRS and the new tyres. You can't say - only the casual fans like this and the hardcore are against it. I think that the purist are against it - and sorry, but I think that they are against everything new. However, I am curious about those FIA surveys. What's the public opinion about the changes?