Thread: Did Pirelli go too far?

Originally Posted by F1boat

That's it, really. I think that fans of the big teams (and one particular driver) are unhappy that there are new faces who appear to be competitive.

It has nothing to do with fanboyism and for the record, unlike some people, I have equal admiration for Hamilton & Alonso

By the same token I could accuse others of being drowned in feel-good stories but don't quote me on it because I know its a cheap shot for this debate just as favourite drivers are.

Originally Posted by wedge

Yes, I agree. Sorry, but I have strong conflicting emotions and finding myself questioning my enthusiasm for the sport.

But regards to the latter its a great difference in performance. A midfield team generally does not suddenly make up a second unless its in the rain and driven by an exceptional driver. Sorry but at the time of writing there was nothing to say Pastor is exceptional.



There have been certain exceptional circumstance in the mantra of: to finish first, first you must finish - which was how Johnny Herbert got his first win for Stewart' in the late 90s Jordan were at their peak at being a geniune frontrunner as a 3rd placed constructor but by and large it was down to talent. The ability to polish a turd by maximising the car, transcending it than a lesser driver would so hence the term 'outdriving' a car and doing it consistently.

Gilles was a cult hero because he won races in a Ferrari cum "Cadillac" in 1981, Senna became an overnight sensation after the 1984 Monaco GP then proved his worth that year by dragging the car into the points then getting wins for Lotus, Schumi proved his worth for Benetton, Hamilton showed that his talent was genuine in 2009.

With the examples given the sense of satisfaction from the results was immense which I'm not getting this year - Individually the races have been great but as whole some of the wins feel like flukes.

Something happened in Q3 when there was a window of opportunity that A) Fred was Lucky enough get a wind advantage of optimum barometric pressures, B) so did Maldo, And C) the boss had time in the pocket.....bad pennnalty!

Originally Posted by Malbec

I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Williams have done a great job turning their performance around, and I agree that the management decisions made over the past year or so have worked. Also, Williams have showed great pace for short periods earlier in the season but again do you think they are genuinely 1 second a lap quicker than an RBR or a McLaren?

What about Lotus? Why are they so quick at every race? That IMO shows that if you have a great car, you'll be quick everywhere with these tires. Red Bull has had problems since day one and Mclaren have a habit of having good and bad races. Williams has shown flashes of speed the whole year if you look at the races and lap times. Edit: (As you point out in your message )

Informative article by Mark Hughes and a conclusion that I agree with.

Within this ambiguity it becomes more difficult than ever to assess the performances of the drivers. Maldonado drove a perfectly controlled race, delicately balancing the requirements of looking after the Williams' rear tyres while sustaining big pressure from Alonso. It was a thinking drive which combined with his qualifying speed became the winning combination. But, like Nico Rosberg's China win, or Jenson Button's in Australia, it was a drive that was all about measuring out the energy of the tyres in the fastest, most efficient way. The sustained aggression and relentlessness, maintaining flat-out on-the-limit driving for lap after lap, a skill that so few can master, is currently an obsolete requirement.

Measured by the new, Pirelli-dominated, set of requirements Maldonado is a top driver. The worrying thing is that he may be equal first with the 23 others.

Confusion reigns in Spain | Features & Experts | Sky Sports Formula 1

Originally Posted by wedge

Yes, I agree. Sorry, but I have strong conflicting emotions and finding myself questioning my enthusiasm for the sport.

This is a good summary for how I feel too.

Yes, I was delighted to see a Williams win or a Sauber challenge for second earlier in the season. Yes I find each individual race utterly absorbing but I also have growing doubts as well.

Originally Posted by DexDexter

What about Lotus? Why are they so quick at every race? That IMO shows that if you have a great car, you'll be quick everywhere with these tires. Red Bull has had problems since day one and Mclaren have a habit of having good and bad races. Williams has shown flashes of speed the whole year if you look at the races and lap times. Edit: (As you point out in your message )

Lotus have done a great job and are the only team to be consistent in pace this season, that is true but I don't think its because they have necessarily a great car, more to do with perhaps having a wider operating window with the tyres.

Red Bull may have had problems but Vettel scored a clear victory at Bahrain didn't he before dropping back to be a second slower a lap than a Williams at the next race. Someone on this thread claimed that perhaps Sauber and Williams just made cars really well suited to the tyres. Is that why Sauber went from being second in Sepang to a 10th and 11th at Shanghai and completely out of the points at Bahrain?

Its that kind of variability that I'm talking about.

This variability will not last for long in any case, in fact I'm 100% convinced that the status quo will be restored by the end of the season. Then we can think about these magnificent races and the excitement they brought.

Originally Posted by DexDexter

This variability will not last for long in any case, in fact I'm 100% convinced that the status quo will be restored by the end of the season. Then we can think about these magnificent races and the excitement they brought.

Yeah, sooner or later McLaren will stop shooting themselves.

Originally Posted by i_max2k2

From webber after the race
I hit the limiter: Webber | Fox Sports

Not all fans enjoy this artificial racing, only those with IQ below 80 enjoy it.

Originally Posted by Dave B

In Spain Lewis Hamilton started not towards the back, but at the back, and yet he finished 8th through a combination of clever strategy and level-headed driving. So it can be done, it's just extremely difficult. And here's the thing: it's meant to be difficult.

If Lewis had had tyres with what you can actually race with and push with, he could have maybe even done better. Now, all he did was slowly drive along saving his tyres and not pushing. Instead, if we had had proper tyres, we could have witnessed him pushing like hell for all race.

Originally Posted by F1boat

Yes, in reality McLaren had the pace to win at least two more races (China and Spain). They made mistakes and paid costly for them. This doesn't diminish the victories of Mercedes GP and Williams. Like Red Bull in 2010 - made many mistakes and let Ferrari and McLaren to benefit. The difference is that now we at least have fun races.

McLaren winning China? What drugs are you on? McLaren was not the fastest car in either of those races or to be more exact, they didn't luck into having their tyres somehow work really well.

Originally Posted by wedge

Informative article by Mark Hughes and a conclusion that I agree with.

Yeah and I will post this quote which shows how pathetic F1 has become.

/The sustained aggression and relentlessness, maintaining flat-out on-the-limit driving for lap after lap, a skill that so few can master, is currently an obsolete requirement./

Instead we have this fantastic sight of drivers SAVING THE TYRES IN QUALIFYING and drive around at 80% limit.

Originally Posted by F1boat

Yeah, sooner or later McLaren will stop shooting themselves.

Red Bull has been a better package than McLaren in pretty much every race this season.

Originally Posted by henners88

Thats pretty lame Garry lol.

Hardly a surprise. I wonder what can one expect from a person who wishes crash for the (one of the) best driver on the grid. I also wonder why the guy keeps posting in a forum, dedicated about racing he founds is for stupid people. And BTW I reported his post. Enough is enough.

Originally Posted by henners88

Thats pretty lame Garry lol. If I now stroll into the playground and steal your dinner money and tell you only people with an IQ below 40 do not enjoy the present tyre regs, do I get as much respect as you? *puffs out chest*

You can do whatever you like, it is a free world and everyone can have an opinion. I have stated mine quite clearly and intend to stand by it.

Originally Posted by F1boat

Hardly a surprise. I wonder what can one expect from a person who wishes crash for the (one of the) best driver on the grid. I also wonder why the guy keeps posting in a forum, dedicated about racing he founds is for stupid people.

I have followed F1 for a LONG time, but yes, currently F1 is in the worst state it has even been. Not that I have anything against different people winning, my problem is DRS and joke tyres which don't allow drivers to push, not to mention the idiocy of having people save tyres in qualifying. So my problem with F1 currently is not the results, but the way they have been achieved.

And BTW I reported his post. Enough is enough.

Wow, are you 11?

Garry, my very last warning to you; stop posting insults or you will be banned !

Originally Posted by pino

Garry, my very last warning to you; stop posting insults or you will be banned !

I have sent you a PM

By the way a question about the pace of Lewis. Do you think that he could have won the race with his 2 stops strategy?

Originally Posted by henners88

Thats pretty lame Garry lol. If I now stroll into the playground and steal your dinner money and tell you only people with an IQ below 40 do not enjoy the present tyre regs, do I get as much respect as you? *puffs out chest*

Garry needs to go to the sauna.

Originally Posted by F1boat

By the way a question about the pace of Lewis. Do you think that he could have won the race with his 2 stops strategy?

Possibly, yes. When you get the sweetspot on tyres you are more strategically adaptable.

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Red Bull has been a better package than McLaren in pretty much every race this season.

Unless you have access to McLaren's & RB's data how do you know or quantify it? It's very subjective.

Originally Posted by wedge

Possibly, yes. When you get the sweetspot on tyres you are more strategically adaptable.

I think so as well...We have to see whether he would replicate this form in Monaco. Not a fan, but the kid was mighty impressive in Spain.

Originally Posted by DexDexter

Garry needs to go to the sauna.

I was there yesterday, pretty good. Maybe I will go tomorrow too.

Originally Posted by wedge

Unless you have access to McLaren's & RB's data how do you know or quantify it? It's very subjective.

Why don't you cry about F1boat who seems to be so sure McLaren has been the car to have?