Did Pirelli go too far?

**Bagwan** · 9th May 12, 19:57

As far as I know , Pirelli is the first manufacturer to have been asked to design a tire that isn't the fastest they could put together .
They've given them dimensions , in terms of "footprint" , but never really gone beyond that .

In the days of the Bridgestone/Michelin wars , they just got faster and faster , and more tailored to the cars .
There were many compounds from which to choose .

Apart , I suppose , from the vicious gasses these things must have been giving off , having been kept in sealed compartments until the very last minute , I suppose life was good .

I think the only part I feel they need to work on is the fact that the tire "falls off the cliff" so fast .
Kimi losing a zillion places in one lap was perhaps the best example of this issue .

But , I too , like the fact that the tires are making a big difference to the show .
It's not that you can't go fast , but rather , that if you do go too fast , there is some consequence .

**Mr Alca-Tazizzle** · 9th May 12, 22:26

Originally Posted by AndyL

Which manufacturer do you think does produce superbike race wets that can be used for multiple laps at 210mph on a mostly dry track?

Funny you should bring that up; I just changed the tires on my Aprilia and went from Pirelli to Michelin, because Pirelli are so damned expensive in this of the woods

**i_max2k2** · 10th May 12, 05:30

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Not everyone...Just Michael Schumacher

You gotta be soft on him, he knows a bit about racing.

**F1boat** · 10th May 12, 10:47

Michael had his time and it was glorious. But now the sport has evolved and he hasn't... that's why this comebacks are bad idea.

**Knock-on** · 10th May 12, 10:47

Originally Posted by Dr Giacomo Rappaccini

Funny you should bring that up; I just changed the tires on my Aprilia and went from Pirelli to Michelin, because Pirelli are so damned expensive in this of the woods

I'm on 'stones because they have better life especially when doing lots of flat miles. Also I have been getting them bloody cheap up till now. However, the Pirelli's would be my favoured choice if the price was the same even though they're quicker wearing on motorways as they're not DC. Now, if I was ioan I would use that fact to slag them off and point out how crap they are

but the fact is that the Pirelli's IMHO are the ones I would prefer under me when I'm going pegs down. Forget supposed 'facts' and statistics: When I have my life on the line I would reach for the P's and drop the B's

**Garry Walker** · 13th May 12, 10:31

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

F1 teams believe that getting strategies perfect will be key in 2012 - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

Good to hear that driver input is significant. For too long the teams seemed to set the strategy and the driver simply had to drive to a pre-set plan until the chequered flag dropped. Not now.

Do you believe everything you are told?

Originally Posted by DexDexter

The FIA tried to enhance overtaking and make the races more exciting for years with all sorts of regulation changes and now they've finally come up with rules that work. I don't see it being any more artificial than putting grooves on tyres or introducing refueling. I remember the era of free regulations in the 80's and early 90's and oh boy those races were generally boring.

This obsession with overtaking is idiotic. These days all we see are meaningless DRS passes which no one will ever remember. You want to see passing? Watch Nascar, you will see more overtakings there than in F1 even with drs. Yet, all those overtaking moves are pretty meaningless. The same is now true for F1. You think in 30 years someone will at footage of a DRS overtaking and say, wow, this was a great move? Yeah, sure.
I'd rather see 3 proper moves in a race, than 30 idiotic meaningless DRS moves. DRS has devalued overtaking.

Originally Posted by Fastonslicks

Still we had plenty of overtaking in 4 races dont you think?

Yeah, and that makes racing great? Lay off the booze.

Originally Posted by F1boat

Rosberg now says that tyres make racing challenging and this is great for F1:
Nico Rosberg says challenge of 2012 Pirelli tyres is great for Formula 1 - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

I wonder if Nico enjoys going at 80% of the limit and saving tyres in qualifying.

Originally Posted by F1boat

Mark and Nico supported the new tyres, now Michael moans again. I may sound rude, but these tyres are the same for every driver. Shut up and drive, or retire, old man!

Schumacher has been too quiet for too long. Now he has grown some balls and spoken up. This nonsense of driving at 75% of the limit to save your tyres, not going out in qualifying to save your tyres is just insane. The sad thing is that idiot fans are lapping it up and think this is great racing.

Originally Posted by ioan

Very interesting how everyone but Pirelli are wrong, even when they bring 4 years old tires to a WSBK race.

To celebrate the good job Pirelli are doing in F1, I will never use one of their tyres on my cars again.

**gloomyDAY** · 13th May 12, 10:41

Garry Walker.jpg

**ioan** · 13th May 12, 11:25

Originally Posted by i_max2k2

You gotta be soft on him, he knows a bit about racing.

Nah, his detractors know more, especially the ones in this forum who nurtured such a healthy hatred for the man! Good to know that MS haters also hate real racing, that explains a lot of things.

**ioan** · 13th May 12, 11:29

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Schumacher has been too quiet for too long. Now he has grown some balls and spoken up. This nonsense of driving at 75% of the limit to save your tyres, not going out in qualifying to save your tyres is just insane. The sad thing is that idiot fans are lapping it up and think this is great racing.

Exactly!

Add to that a bunch of frustrated MS haters, for good measure. If it was Button or Lewis complaining we would have all of them up in arms against Pirelli. That's fanboy objectivity exemplified at it's best.

**ArrowsFA1** · 13th May 12, 14:09

If Schumacher had been among the majority of drivers complaining about the tyres then his views would carry more weight.

Anyway, enough of that. Watching today's race, and watching a Williams up front initially made me wonder about the tyres, but then you remember the fact that the "big" teams don't have an automatic right to race at the front and win all the races.

As it has been said repeatedly, with no counter argument, winning races is all about driver and team putting together a package at a particular race to outperform the opposition. The tyres are simply one part of that and if Maldonado wins this afternoon it will be because he and his team have done a better job under the same rules that apply to everyone else.

**F1boat** · 13th May 12, 15:01

I agree with you Arrows

**pino** · 13th May 12, 15:26

Great post ArrowsFA1

**Dave B** · 13th May 12, 15:29

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

As it has been said repeatedly, with no counter argument, winning races is all about driver and team putting together a package at a particular race to outperform the opposition. The tyres are simply one part of that and if Maldonado wins this afternoon it will be because he and his team have done a better job under the same rules that apply to everyone else.

This.

It's not all about Sunday's race, it's about putting together a strategy across the whole weekend. It's difficult (but it's meant to be) and occasionally complicated to follow, but we're back to a sport which rewards clever thinking and skillful driving, and provides entertaining races along the way, which is exactly what the pinnacle of motorsport should be.

**ioan** · 13th May 12, 15:29

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

If Schumacher had been among the majority of drivers complaining about the tyres then his views would carry more weight.

Anyway, enough of that. Watching today's race, and watching a Williams up front initially made me wonder about the tyres, but then you remember the fact that the "big" teams don't have an automatic right to race at the front and win all the races.

As it has been said repeatedly, with no counter argument, winning races is all about driver and team putting together a package at a particular race to outperform the opposition. The tyres are simply one part of that and if Maldonado wins this afternoon it will be because he and his team have done a better job under the same rules that apply to everyone else.

What a load of rubbish.
This season is all about lucking into a setup that is perfect for the tires and ambient temperatures. But who am I kidding here, a bunch of geniuses who got themselves at armchair F1 fan levels?!

**Dave B** · 13th May 12, 15:30

Originally Posted by ioan

What a load of rubbish.
This season is all about lucking into a setup that is perfect for the tires and ambient temperatures. But who am I kidding here, a bunch of geniuses who got themselves at armchair F1 fan levels?!

This must be killing you: watching the races but not commenting because you'd expose yourself as a hypocrite who went back on his word. You must be watching them, otherwise how can you make such informed comments? Unless, of course, you're just full of it.

**F1boat** · 13th May 12, 15:31

Originally Posted by Dave B

This.

It's not all about Sunday's race, it's about putting together a strategy across the whole weekend. It's difficult (but it's meant to be) and occasionally complicated to follow, but we're back to a sport which rewards clever thinking and skillful driving, and provides entertaining races along the way, which is exactly what the pinnacle of motorsport should be.

So well said that I have nothing to add.

**F1boat** · 13th May 12, 15:31

Originally Posted by Dave B

This must be killing you: watching the races but not commenting because you'd expose yourself as a hypocrite who went back on his word. You must be watching them, otherwise how can you make such informed comments? Unless, of course, you're just full of it.

**jens** · 13th May 12, 17:52

I have been a die-hard F1 fan for ~14 years by now. And I can tell that most of the time the results are quite logical, "predictable" (roughly, not by exact finishing order) and ordinary. Inbetween there are short periods or even odd races, where there is a lot of uncertainty and you can hardly believe your eyes about what you can see. And currently is one such sensational period. So, why not enjoy while it lasts? As by 2013 or whenever we may easily return back to "normality" with 2-3 top teams winning comfortably all races barring extraordinary circumstances.

I will forever remember the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix and the win of Fisichella. It was an extraordinary race. Yes, we also had issues with tyres then (only intermediate tyres for full wet conditions) and it was a messy race, but we saw an emergence of a backmarker at the very front of the field. I will always remember the beginning of 2009, when you could hardly believe seeing Ferrari and McLaren in midfield with private teams battling at the front. 2012 so far has been special. It is so refreshing if at times you can witness that the traditional powerhouses are actually beatable and non-conquering.

**wedge** · 14th May 12, 01:14

Hate to say it but its becoming a bit of a lottery and am beginning to err to Ioan & Garry Walker.

Merit has become more and more of an abstract concept.

Originally Posted by Dave B

This.

It's not all about Sunday's race, it's about putting together a strategy across the whole weekend. It's difficult (but it's meant to be) and occasionally complicated to follow, but we're back to a sport which rewards clever thinking and skillful driving, and provides entertaining races along the way, which is exactly what the pinnacle of motorsport should be.

But that's on a particular GP weekend, not over a season.

Where's the class and quality?

Yes, its is arguably too early to tell but who (at this time period of writing) is the complete driver of the season? The consistency of attaining results certainly doesn't and I'm not so sure the current WDC standings reflects this (yet).

The audience craves unpredictability for entertainment but at what cost to the quality of craftmanship, the execution of talent over a consistent basis.

The concept of unpredictablity vs. quality in football by football journalist Tim Vickery written in 2010:

The Premier League has a collective TV deal, with a more equitable distribution of television money than some other major leagues. Even so, those clubs with a wealthy benefactor or a huge fan base can put themselves streets ahead of weaker rivals, while only a handful of clubs go into the season with any realistic chance of winning. A dose of predictability is the price paid for the quality on show.

It is the opposite of domestic football in Argentina, where the first division has become wildly unpredictable. However, the price paid for this excitement is a lack of quality.

BBC - Tim Vickery: Why the Argentine rollercoaster fails to thrill

**airshifter** · 14th May 12, 04:14

Originally Posted by ioan

What a load of rubbish.
This season is all about lucking into a setup that is perfect for the tires and ambient temperatures. But who am I kidding here, a bunch of geniuses who got themselves at armchair F1 fan levels?!

You're not kidding anyone Ioan. Many of the people watching F1 are just as informed as you, if not more probably. If you'd like to compare personal experiences with racing I'm more than game. Though my experience is nothing more than some amateur level motorcycle racing, some drag racing time, and a little bit of four wheeled track time, I'm sure it's on par with your vast background.

If you can't accept that others will still like and watch F1, just quit whining and go away. Those of us with a brain are tired of your childish insults. Man up and realize that people are allowed differing opinions regardless of whether you like it or not.