Felipe Massa

**Knock-on** · 14th May 12, 16:10

I don't see much difference between Massa before the accident and after. I certainly don't subscribe to this idea that there is some sort of psychological issue affecting him. He's always been nursemaided during his career and was the butt plug for Schumy when the German was not at his best. Now we have Alonso on board and he's been destroyed by a much better driver.

Still, better to look at conspirasy theories and excuses that logic.

**Ranger** · 14th May 12, 17:04

Originally Posted by Knock-on

I don't see much difference between Massa before the accident and after. I certainly don't subscribe to this idea that there is some sort of psychological issue affecting him. He's always been nursemaided during his career and was the butt plug for Schumy when the German was not at his best. Now we have Alonso on board and he's been destroyed by a much better driver.

Still, better to look at conspirasy theories and excuses that logic.

Just in case you (and anyone else) had forgotten:

He won more races than anyone in 2008 and came up one corner short of winning the world championship.

His current predicament is sad because in most of those wins, he looked absolutely unbeatable.

**jens** · 14th May 12, 17:32

Absolutely. Current Massa and the 2008 Massa are incomparable. I even have a suspicion the current driver is Massa's secret twin-brother.

I remember Felipe winning qualifying sessions by the margin of half a second on several occasions! He managed to put in some stunning laps, which he is completely incapable of now.

**truefan72** · 14th May 12, 18:01

Originally Posted by Matthew

Just in case you (and anyone else) had forgotten:

He won more races than anyone in 2008 and came up one corner short of winning the world championship.

His current predicament is sad because in most of those wins, he looked absolutely unbeatable.

he did not win spa in my book and he had the best car that year as well
all of his victories were from disappearing from pole
and in the latter half of the year kimi sacrificed race wins for him
Also he was nowhere to be found in France before kimi's exhaust failed, punted Hamilton off in Japan, and looked like a clown in the wet (silverstone)

That championship would have been Hamilton's much earlier if not of the stewards trying their best to gift it to massa.

massa is a good driver in a great car
an average driver in good car
and a terrible driver in an average car

has no instinctive race craft, relies heavily on smedley to walk him through every lap and is incapable of getting more out of the car than offered.
Like many have said, if ferrari isn't offering him a drive, I'm pretty sure no other team will

**jens** · 14th May 12, 18:13

If you are going on about Massa's luck, you shouldn't forget his unluck in 2008 either. He lost two races wins (Hungary, Singapore) with car/team failures. So it kinda balances it out, when we are comparing it to Hamilton from the same season, who IIRC never retired with a car problem. By the way, Kimi didn't sacrifice wins, just a second place in China.

In any case, you may argue about Massa's past how you like, but nonetheless he was much better in 2008 than he has been recently. In addition, to me Felipe looked quite 'okay' in 2002-2005 in midfield Saubers too if we are talking about his ability in average cars. Sure he wasn't stellar, but was showing flashes of speed every now and then, being far from the joke he has become now.

**Mr Alca-Tazizzle** · 14th May 12, 18:16

Originally Posted by truefan72

he did not win spa in my book and he had the best car that year as well
all of his victories were from disappearing from pole
and in the latter half of the year kimi sacrificed race wins for him
Also he was nowhere to be found in France before kimi's exhaust failed, punted Hamilton off in Japan, and looked like a clown in the wet (silverstone)

That championship would have been Hamilton's much earlier if not of the stewards trying their best to gift it to massa.

massa is a good driver in a great car
an average driver in good car
and a terrible driver in an average car

has no instinctive race craft, relies heavily on smedley to walk him through every lap and is incapable of getting more out of the car than offered.
Like many have said, if ferrari isn't offering him a drive, I'm pretty sure no other team will

+1 Totally agree, Massa is just like getting;

By Fred, and anyone else that has a decent car under them. Felipe baby Alonso is MUCH faster than you.

“A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism.”
― Carl Sagan

**N. Jones** · 14th May 12, 21:00

Originally Posted by SGWilko

Didn't Mansell break his back/neck at least 17 times in his career, whilst burning his arse on spilled fuel hitting a barrier at Sukuza backwards full chat.

I wont even mention Niki Lauder........

Yep, which is why I said there are exceptions. I believe the accident is a major reason why he is struggling.

**Mr Alca-Tazizzle** · 14th May 12, 21:45

Come on Ben if that is really bothering him than he is a puss, which I do not think he is. I think that all things considered; Massa is just a guy that has to deal with a major change in the "competition" that doesn't get it, and somehow like at Renault Fred can pitch that beast down the road.

**N. Jones** · 15th May 12, 00:11

Serious question, Are you talking to me, Good Doctor?

**truefan72** · 15th May 12, 02:30

Ferrari pile more pressure on Massa - Yahoo! Eurosport

now Ferrari themselves are heaping pressure on Massa
this does not bode well for him

**airshifter** · 15th May 12, 04:37

Originally Posted by Matthew

Just in case you (and anyone else) had forgotten:

He won more races than anyone in 2008 and came up one corner short of winning the world championship.

His current predicament is sad because in most of those wins, he looked absolutely unbeatable.

Not to mention the fact that he beat Kimi, who managed to get a WDC in his first year in the Ferrari. Some will call him a loser for that one point, but it was a much stronger season than he has had since.

**aryan** · 15th May 12, 04:44

Originally Posted by jens

Felipe looked quite 'okay' in 2002-2005 in midfield Saubers too if we are talking about his ability in average cars. Sure he wasn't stellar, but was showing flashes of speed every now and then, being far from the joke he has become now.

Sure, he was better than 2011-2012 Filipe, but his form in that Sauber was nothing to brag about. I seem to remember him running into his teammates on quite a number of occassions.

In 3 years, there are opportunities to stand out in a midfield car, and Filipe never stood out. If it wasn't for the Ferrari engine, I'm sure Peter Sauber wouldn't have even run him. Let's face it, there were much better drivers deserving of that Ferrari drive in 2006, if it was for on pure merit. But Todt had a fascination with him that I never understood.

**Mr Alca-Tazizzle** · 15th May 12, 07:34

Originally Posted by N. Jones

Serious question, Are you talking to me, Good Doctor?

No Sir! I wish I could tell you who I was, but I was guilty of PUI yesterday

**Knock-on** · 15th May 12, 07:58

Originally Posted by truefan72

he did not win spa in my book and he had the best car that year as well
all of his victories were from disappearing from pole
and in the latter half of the year kimi sacrificed race wins for him
Also he was nowhere to be found in France before kimi's exhaust failed, punted Hamilton off in Japan, and looked like a clown in the wet (silverstone)

That championship would have been Hamilton's much earlier if not of the stewards trying their best to gift it to massa.

massa is a good driver in a great car
an average driver in good car
and a terrible driver in an average car

has no instinctive race craft, relies heavily on smedley to walk him through every lap and is incapable of getting more out of the car than offered.
Like many have said, if ferrari isn't offering him a drive, I'm pretty sure no other team will

This ^^^ all day long.

When people defend Massa by pointing out that he didn't win in 2008 despite having the best car, a complying team mate and some incredible decesions in his favour from 'der management' and against his main rival..... well, it says it all really.

Now he has a good to average car and is just getting destroyed by Alonso.

Actually there might be a psychological issue with him but it's nothing to do with his accident. it's that he hasn't the right mental attitude to handle his team mate.

**darwin553** · 15th May 12, 08:05

Originally Posted by truefan72

he did not win spa in my book and he had the best car that year as well
all of his victories were from disappearing from pole
and in the latter half of the year kimi sacrificed race wins for him
Also he was nowhere to be found in France before kimi's exhaust failed, punted Hamilton off in Japan, and looked like a clown in the wet (silverstone)

That championship would have been Hamilton's much earlier if not of the stewards trying their best to gift it to massa.

massa is a good driver in a great car
an average driver in good car
and a terrible driver in an average car

has no instinctive race craft, relies heavily on smedley to walk him through every lap and is incapable of getting more out of the car than offered.
Like many have said, if ferrari isn't offering him a drive, I'm pretty sure no other team will

I believe in this also.

Massa just seems like the kind of driver that needs the top performing car of the field to be able to do well and win races and can't achieve a better than expected result in mediocre equipment.

I also think that he isn't one to rise to the occasion when the media start to criticise him but rather the pressure of the media's attention on him has a compounding effect of keeping the status quo or making his results and performance worse.

**Dave B** · 15th May 12, 11:15

I just think back to the opening stages of Spain when Rob Smedley had to chivvy him along to pass a Toro Rosso for 10th, while up front his team mate was leading the race. That, in microcosm, is the story of Massa's season.

When's Sergio's seat fitting?

**Dave B** · 15th May 12, 11:16

Originally Posted by Mark

The only question is who will be the Ferrari No. 2 in 2013

Alonso, when Perez joins the team and starts kicking his ass

**N4D13** · 15th May 12, 11:25

I'm starting to believe that Massa will be sacked before the end of the season. I hadn't noticed before, but it turns out that Alonso's worst place (ninth) is the same as Massa's best. Alonso has scored in every single race - Massa, in only one of them. I wouldn't be surprised to see someone like Sutil or even Alguersuari getting a Ferrari race seat for the remainder of 2012 if Felipe doesn't get to grips with the tyres soon enough.

**zako85** · 15th May 12, 11:39

If Massa is to be sacked, he has to be sacked like .. TODAY. Otherwise it doesn't make sense. What's the point of sacking him at say ten or less races before the end of season? Anyone thinks a fresh driver with no experience with the car, 2012 tires, and possibly no experience in F1, will do better than Massa is doing currently?

**zako85** · 15th May 12, 11:43

Originally Posted by N4D13

I'm starting to believe that Massa will be sacked before the end of the season. I hadn't noticed before, but it turns out that Alonso's worst place (ninth) is the same as Massa's best.

You could say the same thing about Webber last year. He couldn't do better than Vettel's worst finish (2nd) until German GP, when Vettel's then current worst finish became 4th place.