Thread: Missing luck soured '07 title charge - Massa

Originally Posted by thunderbolt

http://www.homeofsport.com/f1/news/item.aspx?id=21103

He should have shown more consistency. Kimi also experienced reliability issues and still won.

I don't want to be overoptimism that he should have won the 2007 title, but his speed deserves he had better points or leading in points, if he had to

He's pretty much right.
He only messed it up when he exited the pits on red in Canada.
In terms of sheer speed FM was, IMO, the fastest out there. He pulled out some stunning pole position times against the faster McLarens in the middle of the season.
And after the Italian GP he had to support Kimi giving up his position in Brazil and in Japan.

Then again, Kimi had the same problems and emerged the winner.

Better luck this year, Felipe.

Kimi suffered more retirements due to reliablity issues than Felipe. Ok, the Brazilian had gearbox woes in Australia which saw him at the back of the grid, and then there was the mess up with fuel in Hungary, but Kimi just did a better job, as many expected him to, over the course of the whole season. Felipe is certainly quick, and can win races when the conditions are right, but he is yet to show he can do that consistently enough (and win races when the conditions aren't quite right) to win a championship.

Originally Posted by samuratt

He should have shown more consistency. Kimi also experienced reliability issues and still won.

End of story, really.

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Kimi suffered more retirements due to reliablity issues than Felipe. Ok, the Brazilian had gearbox woes in Australia which saw him at the back of the grid, and then there was the mess up with fuel in Hungary, .

And the suspension failure at Monza and the disqualification in Montreal... Did Kimi really have more mechanical retirements..? And the DQ in Montreal was ridiculous, when in previous seasons drivers have committed the same offence and been merely given a stop-go.

Also don't forget that Felipe gifted Kimi the title at Brazil! Without him, Kimi was not fast enough to win the title. End of story.

Team work, end of story.

Originally Posted by Osella

Also don't forget that Felipe gifted Kimi the title at Brazil! Without him, Kimi was not fast enough to win the title. End of story.

That would be a valid point if Felipe was in a position to win the championship at Brazil. He wasn't.

Originally Posted by Osella

Did Kimi really have more mechanical retirements..?

Yes.

Kimi:
Spanish GP - retlred - electrical
European GP - retired - hydraulics

Felipe:
Italian GP - retired - suspension

And then there was the fuel issue in Hungary, the gearbox in Australia and Britain..
Plus the DQ from Canada. So that's quite a lot of points potentially lost really!

And he would not have been on no position to win the championship had it not been for those issues, especially when you consider that Kimi was one of the main beneficiaries of the Monza suspension failure!

It's quite probable that Kimi suffered from the same suspension problem as Massa when he crashed in the free practise. That didn't seem like a normal failed breaking.

It's funny how Kimi is often called a car breaker when things go wrong but Massa is unlucky.

Originally Posted by Osella

And then there was the fuel issue in Hungary, the gearbox in Australia and Britain..
Plus the DQ from Canada. So that's quite a lot of points potentially lost really!!

Of course, but much the same could be said of everyone on the grid. If only this, that or the other...

If Kimi hadn't clobbered the wall at the Monaco Swimming Pool Chicane he would surely have picked up more than a point. If he hadn't suffered an accident in practice at Monza would he have challenged the McLarens for the win?

Then again, if Hamilton hadn't found the gravel trap in China it would have been all over before Brazil anyway

Originally Posted by Osella

And he would not have been on no position to win the championship had it not been for those issues, especially when you consider that Kimi was one of the main beneficiaries of the Monza suspension failure!

By the same token Kimi had a suspension failure in practice and it clearly hindered him throughout the weekend.

Originally Posted by Malllen

Then again, Kimi had the same problems and emerged the winner.

Could you please do a list with all their problems and the points lost?! Then we can talk seriously, not just throw in a post without any support whatsoever.

Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

By the same token Kimi had a suspension failure in practice and it clearly hindered him throughout the weekend.

So from now on we should also consider pre-season mechanical failures? Or should we go all the way until childhood?

[QUOTE=ArrowsFA1;412150]Of course, but much the same could be said of everyone on the grid. If only this, that or the other...
QUOTE]

Exactly! But it really pisses me off that there are so many people who go 'so and so won' end of... Without looking at what really happened in context.

In reality, Felipe was just as fast as Kimi over the year as a whole, althugh (excepting Turkey and Brazil, question mark over Monza) Kimi was faster in the second half of the season. So to say Kimi was better ''cos he won', is rubbish! Just like people put Panis' win down to attrition, and ignore the number of cars he overtook that day, and ignore the fact Prost really would and should have won the 1990 world title, Schumacher only was allowed to score in 12 races in 1994 etc..

The fact that both Ferrari drivers were in contention for the title until the end of the season, and had more mechanical problems and few driver errors indicates to me that they performed better than the mcLaren drivers IMO, and they were very balanced over the season as a whole. There were days where Massa was in his own league compared to the whole field, including Kimi.

So yes, Massa would have been in a much better position compared to the others without the bad luck he got this year, and perhaps the title fight would have come down to just the two Ferrari drivers at the end of the year if neither had been hampered by these issues.
Let's hope that's what it comes down to in 2008!

Originally Posted by Osella

Exactly! But it really pisses me off that there are so many people who go 'so and so won' end of... Without looking at what really happened in context.

In reality, Felipe was just as fast as Kimi over the year as a whole, althugh (excepting Turkey and Brazil, question mark over Monza) Kimi was faster in the second half of the season. So to say Kimi was better ''cos he won', is rubbish! Just like people put Panis' win down to attrition, and ignore the number of cars he overtook that day, and ignore the fact Prost really would and should have won the 1990 world title, Schumacher only was allowed to score in 12 races in 1994 etc..

The fact that both Ferrari drivers were in contention for the title until the end of the season, and had more mechanical problems and few driver errors indicates to me that they performed better than the mcLaren drivers IMO, and they were very balanced over the season as a whole. There were days where Massa was in his own league compared to the whole field, including Kimi.

So yes, Massa would have been in a much better position compared to the others without the bad luck he got this year, and perhaps the title fight would have come down to just the two Ferrari drivers at the end of the year if neither had been hampered by these issues.
Let's hope that's what it comes down to in 2008!

Well put!

Originally Posted by ioan

So from now on we should also consider pre-season mechanical failures? Or should we go all the way until childhood?

Surely you can see the difference between running your primary race car with your body at 100% and running with your spare car being unable to hold your head up properly in braking due to and accident the very same weekend?