Thread: Webber's Hydraulics
28th Aug 07, 02:05 #21
all i can say is i hope they figure it out quickly! i'm not going to the japanese gp to see webber's car break!!! i want to see that red bull get across the line at leastSir! While I disagree with what you are saying, I will fight to the death your right to spell the words incorerctly and use heinous.. grammar yo !!!
28th Aug 07, 03:37 #22
Is it possible to be using the paddles in some inappropriate manner or rythm that would sooner or later cause issues with some component such as with Webber or KR?
Or can one simply shift at random up and down and the electronics et al, will always work perfectly to avoid damage
I know that despite the great braking capacity, in the past it was possible to abuse brakes such as they would be damaged or the discs even explode---Only the dead know the end of war. Plato
28th Aug 07, 14:39 #23
28th Aug 07, 19:29 #24
So for those in the know, is there any thought that the generic term of hydralic failure is hiding some type of gearbox failure because the hydraulics, etc, just could not handle the wrong shift at the wrong time, or has the electronic sophistication reached a point, that one can do no damage no matter how or when they paddle?Only the dead know the end of war. Plato
29th Aug 07, 00:46 #25
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
Webber has retired from 28 races due to car problems, 6 of them have been due to hydraulics.
I am not very sure, but I think that really isnt most...
Added to that, it is a bit rich to blame either of the RB drivers for this years car problems, unless you think they both suddenly forgot how to not kill the gearbox for example?
Newey and his co-designers have just overdone it a bit.
"signature room for rent"
29th Aug 07, 02:43 #26
Marks been unfortunate to move from one team that was implementing a difficult seamless shift gearbox (Williams) and suffering the teething problems that go with it to another team (red Bull) that is implementing a difficult seamless shift gearbox and experiencing the teething problems that go with it.Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. - P.J. O'Rourke
29th Aug 07, 14:04 #27
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
29th Aug 07, 21:19 #28
Guess that means that outside of running the car into something or riding around too hard on the brakes, there just is not much that the driver can do break an otherwise healthy car (and I do put emphasis on healthy, as I suppose if the car were having some engine/drivetrain issue, the driver could still enhance the potential for an explosion or speed up the process so that it blows sooner rather than later but otherwise...)Only the dead know the end of war. Plato
30th Aug 07, 08:16 #29Riccardo Patrese - 256GPs 1977-1993
30th Aug 07, 12:29 #30
31st Aug 07, 04:05 #31
I think there's an unwritten rule that says that teams using customer engines shall not blame the engine for a mechanical DNF under any circumstances. So if RBR have had an engine failure, one that didn't result in gigantic cloud of stunningly obvious white smoke, then you can bet that they put it down to something vague like hydraulics rather than coming out and saying that their Renault motor just shat itself again.
I not so sure that one driver can "hit" curbs harder than another, unless the other guy stays off the curbs completely. Seeing as how drivers need to use the curbs to get a good lap time, I don't think that any driver out there is staying completely off the curbs.
And surely the force transmitted through the suspension when a curb is hit is a direct result of the weight of the car and the speed it is doing? The only other variable, I suppose, is the angle at which the curb is hit.
DC's car weighs the same as Webber's, so unless Webber is going much faster over curbs, thus transmitting more force through his suspension than DC, I don't see how his driving style is the problem. Could Webber's angle of attack be detrimental to his car's health? Again, I don't see how. The apex of a corner doesn't move and all the drivers are trying to hit it, so how much variance can there be between the angle that one driver hits it as opposed to another?Forza Ferrari!!
2nd Sep 07, 00:50 #32
I have a hard time believing that anyone, based on random fate, can be that unlucky. In Turkey, he was the only one to break down. You say Mark has nothing to do with it? There were those that raked Ron over the coals for throwing that nice Hamilton kid to the F1 wolves and how rushing him into the big show so fast with a 2 time WDC was going to shatter his confidence. Well his confidence doesn't look shattered. You going to tell me that has all been luck? The kid's skill and driving style has had nothing to do with his success? I think some of the reliability problems that follow Mark and Kimi are of their own making, somehow.
3rd Sep 07, 00:22 #33
the fact that the "unluckiness" is happening in 3 different teams could suggest Mark is doing something wrong...Fan of Timo Glock and proud of it! 3 podiums, new start as a Virgin
3rd Sep 07, 00:31 #34
3rd Sep 07, 07:50 #35
if it was driving style someone somewhere should of picked that up surely!Casey Stoner: 2007 World Champion
3rd Sep 07, 13:25 #36
3rd Sep 07, 15:41 #37
If what has been said is true
If what has been said is true in postings to my questions, about the electronics and design of gearboxes and engines being so "electronic" that the driver can not abuse them with "random paddling", then it must be pure mechanical failure from a source other than driver
And if hitting curbs is not destroying/damaging suspension, it is difficult for me to see how it would be causing these failures in the absence of obvious chassis failureOnly the dead know the end of war. Plato
3rd Sep 07, 19:25 #38
I don't know either. Mark is quite a bit taller than the rest of the herd. Maybe it has to do with a stretched drivers tub. I don't know.
4th Sep 07, 12:51 #39
- Join Date
- May 2007
Same with tyres. Some drivers complain more about tyres that go off because they are ragged where others are stressing them less and protecting their longetivity.
There is so much fluctuating force going into a car that banging it over curbs and the such will expose any weakness that another driver may not uncover. I dont know if this is the case with Mark because he doesn't strike me as the sort but he does seem a little too unlucky.
Luck is a tangible force in F1. It's true you make your own luck but sometimes it's better to have a lucky driver than an unlucky fast one.
Lucky and fast seems to be the likes of MS, FA and LH while unlucky and fast would be KR and MW. MS is a great case in point. He made a lot of his luck but even on the days when he wasn't the quickest, he would pick up places and wins by getting the car over the line. Some say it's luck but us older heads might say it's race craft over speed.Justice is blind but doesn't have to be stupid.
4th Sep 07, 13:05 #40
Call it what you want, I'd just like to see what the man could do with a decent car that doesn't break.