RRC vs S2000 NA

RS · 20th Apr 12, 16:13

Watching the video links posted on the Mille Miglia thread it seems the fast way to drive the RRCs is very clean. S2000 are much more spectacular to watch. I hope R4T doesn't end up sounding and looking like RRC on the stages

**dimviii** · 20th Apr 12, 16:18

Originally Posted by stepunk

Basso and Andreucci are on Pirelli, Hanninen and Scandola use Michelin.
Pirelli weather because Pirellis do their best on damp, wet and cold roads (they're maybe even better than Michelins in this type of conditions, IMO)

i mean that they are not using the wet or intermediate type,they are using the rx type which is for dry asphalt.
that pirelli is better on these conditions is not something to be absolute,same in dry roads too imho

**Mirek** · 20th Apr 12, 17:08

Originally Posted by dimviii

i mean that they are not using the wet or intermediate type,they are using the rx type which is for dry asphalt.
that pirelli is better on these conditions is not something to be absolute,same in dry roads too imho

In the past Pirelli were always better in these conditions on Italian asphalt. Even if it was just dump and they run on soft slicks. They always started to loose with growing temperature of asphalt.

**dimviii** · 20th Apr 12, 17:13

know that Mirek,just i d like to say that at Greek asphalt(at least) there are types of asphalts that Pirellis are better,and some types that Michelins are better.Really cant say that this tyre, is definetely better than the other.And i am not talking about damp-wet conditions,but at complete dry and high temperatures we have in Greece.

RS · 21st Apr 12, 15:39

So after Basso's near domination of Mille Miglia can we draw any conclusions to the question in this thread?

Now I'm curious to see which car he will chose for Corsica. I prefer to watch (and hear) S2000 cars but it would be kind of interesting to see Basso in Fiesta RRC vs. Sordo in Mini RRC.

**Mirek** · 21st Apr 12, 17:42

According to Czech magazine "Rally" the latest evolution of Fiesta RRC has new cylinder head and engine mapping resulting in a growth of power which is now around 275 Hp. They wrote the car also had new gear ratios. They wrote it was first used by Al Rahji in Portugal.

I didn't know about that.

**OldF** · 24th Apr 12, 22:05

But now we all do

. Was there anything about the torque?

I also remember that Gerard Quinn tweeted that the Fiesta RRC has 260 ps when it was introduced. If it know has 275 ps, it would be an improvement of 5,8% which could be realistic. MINI got a 3% increase in the power by redesigning the induction system etc. (prodrive)

I had a recollection that I had read about that somewhere and after a deep search in memory I recalled it was in gpweek, issue 119 (9th of May 2011) GP Week : Issue 115, Page 1

The changes (homologations) by that time was only for reinforcement of the cylinder head but Loriaux said that they’ve done a lot of simulations concerning the shape of combustion chambers etc.

Probably it’s the result of those simulations and tests M-Sport (Ford) have homologated in the beginning of this year (Homologations).

The next ones are off topic but I couldn’t resist the temptation to put them here.

I see it little confusing when Citroen says the DS3 have 350 Nm torque (with 98 SP commercial fuel) with a 29 mm restrictor (http://boutique.citroenracing.com/cm...be96b59bc3.pdf)
and M-Sport says the Fiesta RRC (Ford Fiesta RRC) has “only” 360 Nm with a 30 mm restrictor. OK, these are the “official” figures but still.

IMO another inconsistency on M-Sport’s site is when they say that the RRC has it peak torque @ 4750 rpm and the WRC car has it peak torque @ 4000 rpm with a bigger restrictor.

**OldF** · 24th Apr 12, 22:11

Originally Posted by Sulland

Ok, have not seen that, do you have a link?

If you mean the Mini, the link is http://www.motoringfile.com/wp-conte...es-package.pdf

**Sulland** · 13th May 12, 00:21

Impressed by how evenly matched the RRCs and the S2000 cars are in Korsika. Not a bad job by those who calculated the restrictor size for the RRCs !

RS · 13th May 12, 10:11

Originally Posted by Sulland

Impressed by how evenly matched the RRCs and the S2000 cars are in Korsika. Not a bad job by those who calculated the restrictor size for the RRCs !

I kind of agree but I still think we need to see more. Basso on the coming events will be the perfect benchmark.

**Barreis** · 13th May 12, 17:55

Can't wait for San Remo roads.

**JAM** · 14th May 12, 14:21

Originally Posted by RS

I kind of agree but I still think we need to see more. Basso on the coming events will be the perfect benchmark.

We need to see a gravel rally.

On tarmac we saw almost everything, and i said "almost" because we need a event with fast stages.

RS · 14th May 12, 16:04

I guess Basso will do San Marino which should help, although I don't think he's as good on gravel as on asphalt.

Shouldn't the 1.6Ts be at an advantage on gravel due to better traction?

**mousti** · 14th May 12, 17:47

Originally Posted by JAM

We need to see a gravel rally.

On tarmac we saw almost everything, and i said "almost" because we need a event with fast stages.

A rally like Ypres should have helped very different tarmac stages then Corse or San Remo. Barum and such would be also good.

RS · 14th May 12, 19:16

Looking at Eurosport simulcam, the Mini only seemed to have an advantage over the Skoda under braking. The Skoda was faster round and out of the corners. But this could be anything, tyre compound, driver, setup... But it's interesting because I thought it would be on twistier sections that the Mini should have the advantage.

IRC CORSICA SS5 SIMULCAM SORDO vs KOPECKY - Video Gallery - IRC Intercontinental Rally Challenge - Eurosport

**Gard** · 14th May 12, 21:15

Originally Posted by RS

Looking at Eurosport simulcam, the Mini only seemed to have an advantage over the Skoda under braking. The Skoda was faster round and out of the corners. But this could be anything, tyre compound, driver, setup... But it's interesting because I thought it would be on twistier sections that the Mini should have the advantage.

IRC CORSICA SS5 SIMULCAM SORDO vs KOPECKY - Video Gallery - IRC Intercontinental Rally Challenge - Eurosport

Sordo is probably used to a bit more torque, so he brakes to late in the RRC. With less torque you´ll probably have to brake bit earlier and carry a bit more speed through the corners.

**Coach 2** · 14th May 12, 21:51

Just a question, not an assertion, but will braking LATER give you more speed through or out of a turn?
Otherwise, I agree that Sordo will / should not spend much time trying to adjust to a "not so new car."

**SlowSon** · 14th May 12, 22:57

I think he means that if you break earlier, then you begin accelerating earlier (before the apex) too, using the "middle throttle". If you have bigger torque you dont care about that (exit of the corner with big momentum) and brake late 'til the apex. Later braking doesnt mean longer.

**JAM** · 15th May 12, 01:27

Originally Posted by RS

IRC CORSICA SS5 SIMULCAM SORDO vs KOPECKY - Video Gallery - IRC Intercontinental Rally Challenge - Eurosport

Interesting that in a fast corner (the left corner at the beggining) Sordo lost a lot to the Skoda. It was nothing to do with lack of power, and by the way he brakes, it won't seem a problem of handling.

The way the Mini brakes is powerfull. Driver or car? The mini brakes strong and late, but won't seem to lose to Skoda on the last left corner.

**Mirek** · 15th May 12, 08:42

On a rally like Corsica I can imagine they can drive very different way to achieve similar times. It's a lot about the efficiency of using brakes and tyres not in one or two corners we can see but in thousand of corners in several stages. It's difficult to judge anything but sure it's very different from them.