Thread: New here, never actually raced, but...

Originally Posted by pkeegs

...I've taught myself to drive, and to handle a car in a way that many would expect to be near impossible, if not fully so. More precisely, I've taught myself to drive insane roads at insane speeds in Honda Accords; not the sportiest of cars, but sufficiently quick and maneuverable enough that I can keep up with a WRX STI on curvy, crumbling asphalt roads through the woods. I've also met the Governor of Speed in the car I currently drive, a 2007 Accord. He resides at 130 miles per hour. So I know I'm not slow, and I know how to push a car to the brink of its handling; how to feel the front tires through the wheel and all four through the seat of my pants; how to recognize when either the front or back of the car is slipping and correct for it (though I wouldn't be able to put any of these feelings or actions into words. Cars are all instinct for me); how to run a car until its brakes are red-hot, literally, without crashing into guardrails. I have the perfect skill-set for racing, along with the right mindset. I'm sorry about the shameless plugging--not so shameless, really, I'm terribly sorry for it. But it's all driving towards my point.

Along with all that, I have certain neurological, psychological, and developmental issues that make traditional schooling nigh on impossible for me to complete. I often don't learn well in a classroom setting, and my ADHD, along with executive dysfunction, make doing homework a task to dwarf the building of the Colosseum.

Mate, get off the road before you kill someone.

Originally Posted by Koz

Mate, get off the road before you kill someone.

Indeed. Go rallying instead. From that description you are far more suited to rally driving than racing.

Originally Posted by Koz

Mate, get off the road before you kill someone.

You're right, I shouldn't drive like that on the roads. In my defense--as much as it doesn't matter--I drive on largely unused roads, in the middle of the night, away from houses, cars, and pedestrians. If I kill anyone, it will be me. But even that isn't to say that I should drive like that. I understand that there's always a chance something could go wrong, and I've been working, with a significant amount of success, on cutting down the insanity in my driving.

Originally Posted by Mark

Indeed. Go rallying instead. From that description you are far more suited to rally driving than racing.

A fair assumption, and I would like to end up, ultimately, as a rally driver. But I see tracks in ways most people don't. I use slightly different turn lines, slightly different tactics... everything about the way I drive is different from anyone else I've ever met, and it generally works. I don't have the means to go rallying, either. I would if I could, but I can't. I can't afford my own car, and my parents sure as hell won't let me take my dad's or grandmother's car rallying. I'd also need money for tires, fuel, etc., and I just don't have that.

Also, on an unrelated topic, I'm sorry if I'm coming across a little... douchey might be the word for it. It's more of an internet persona than anything; I'll need to settle in before I start being me. I definitely don't want to start off on the wrong foot.

In general racing is considerably more expensive than rallying. What makes you think racing would be easier to get into?

Besides any way you are talking a lot of cash.

Perhaps you should try some track days first to see if you are as quick as you reckon.

It's also good to see that you want to channel it in the right way. Out of the way or the middle of the night or whatever, keep it calm on the public roads. You might meet me coming home from work.

Originally Posted by Mark

In general racing is considerably more expensive than rallying. What makes you think racing would be easier to get into?

Besides any way you are talking a lot of cash.

Perhaps you should try some track days first to see if you are as quick as you reckon.

It's also good to see that you want to channel it in the right way. Out of the way or the middle of the night or whatever, keep it calm on the public roads. You might meet me coming home from work.

I get the impression that a decent karting setup is cheaper than a decent rallying setup, so I've been figuring that if I can get myself a kart, helmet, suit, gloves, boots, etc., I can demonstrate my ability and possibly get sponsorship.

Trying a few track days makes sense, though... do you know if there are any good tracks near NYC with loaner/renter karts and equipment?

And yeah, I don't think it's fair of me to risk other persons' welfare in the interests of going fast.

Thank you for being so responsive, by the way, I appreciate it.

But karts also take support equipment as well as the kart itself... you aren't driving it to the track are you?

Probably the cheapest thing to get into racing with is a street car that you can Autocross. The various classes are set up so that quite a few cheap cars have a very good chance of doing well. Drivers skill is very important, and if you find a class that allows very cheap cars that is also a plus.

At the end of the day think you are fast and knowing you are fast are two different things. Until you get to a track and compete against similar cars you really don't know.

You have near perfect skills----you wanna go "racing" but you don't have any money..

Go back and choose some richer parents and have them buy you nice karts till you're 16 then buy you a seat in some "team"...

That is how it's done...

There are two things that everyman and boy thinks he's better than average at.
Driving is the other one..

I assure you, you aren't probably even average at either. Guys that are good are analytical (and often not too bright---I speak from personal experience--I did full time professional motorsports for 2 sorta seasons--both shortened with injuries. Injuries which even 35 years later have led to 4 serious operations in the last 4 years and another scheduled) and they must be , even to be just a mid pack guy, realistic at analyzing situations.

You stated there's no money yet you dream...I am all for dreaming....my guiding quote was from a noted Englishman who said "The crime is not in failing, but in setting low aims". (Bonus points for knowing the speaker)

But car racing even amateur local yeee haw dirt track ovals requires money.

My motorsports I knew i could afford with just a steady middle working class income...and i was lucky to talk to a bunch of the guys referenced in this "How Good is your Geographic?" thread somewhere around here.....a whole gang of World Champions in a relaxed non track party.. I asked them "What should i do if i want to do what you are doing, drive full time all round the world"

The answer was "Give yourself 10 years serious training"..
It took 11...then 2 seasons and I was flat worn out...
Me "How long for serious condition?" "min 4 years if no serious injuries"
Never really had it---knees, knees knees arms knees.. I was Pro at taping knees for the different tears and detached ligaments...


In the end it was insanely hard work, way more fun to ratchet down and do clubbie events.

Anyway, go back and see if you can be born to the "Lucky Sperm Club", and then you can be like the guys we see on one side in US Presidential races :Born on Third base and they think they hit a home run"

Originally Posted by airshifter

But karts also take support equipment as well as the kart itself... you aren't driving it to the track are you?

Probably the cheapest thing to get into racing with is a street car that you can Autocross. The various classes are set up so that quite a few cheap cars have a very good chance of doing well. Drivers skill is very important, and if you find a class that allows very cheap cars that is also a plus.

At the end of the day think you are fast and knowing you are fast are two different things. Until you get to a track and compete against similar cars you really don't know.

Fair enough. I'm aware that karts also require extra equipment, which means more money. Thanks for the tip on Autocross, I'll probably end up pursuing that. And yeah, you're right, I don't actually know I'm fast in comparison to other racers. I have a strong feeling, based on what I know I can do in a cheap car in different circumstances than would occur in a race. I'll have to try and see what happens in the field, rather than racing on the streets.

Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

You have near perfect skills----you wanna go "racing" but you don't have any money..

Go back and choose some richer parents and have them buy you nice karts till you're 16 then buy you a seat in some "team"...

That is how it's done...

There are two things that everyman and boy thinks he's better than average at.
Driving is the other one..

I assure you, you aren't probably even average at either. Guys that are good are analytical (and often not too bright---I speak from personal experience--I did full time professional motorsports for 2 sorta seasons--both shortened with injuries. Injuries which even 35 years later have led to 4 serious operations in the last 4 years and another scheduled) and they must be , even to be just a mid pack guy, realistic at analyzing situations.

You stated there's no money yet you dream...I am all for dreaming....my guiding quote was from a noted Englishman who said "The crime is not in failing, but in setting low aims". (Bonus points for knowing the speaker)

But car racing even amateur local yeee haw dirt track ovals requires money.

My motorsports I knew i could afford with just a steady middle working class income...and i was lucky to talk to a bunch of the guys referenced in this "How Good is your Geographic?" thread somewhere around here.....a whole gang of World Champions in a relaxed non track party.. I asked them "What should i do if i want to do what you are doing, drive full time all round the world"

The answer was "Give yourself 10 years serious training"..
It took 11...then 2 seasons and I was flat worn out...
Me "How long for serious condition?" "min 4 years if no serious injuries"
Never really had it---knees, knees knees arms knees.. I was Pro at taping knees for the different tears and detached ligaments...


In the end it was insanely hard work, way more fun to ratchet down and do clubbie events.

Anyway, go back and see if you can be born to the "Lucky Sperm Club", and then you can be like the guys we see on one side in US Presidential races :Born on Third base and they think they hit a home run"

Think you could have been a little more harsh? I know that I'm much better than the average lay driver, at the very, very least. My friends are the kind of people who own Golf GTIs, WRX STIs, plain old Imprezas, Eclipses and the like, and I've never, ever even come close to losing a race to them--bear in mind that I drive a 4-cylinder, 4-door 2007 Accord, and I'm going against those cars. And my friends are fantastic drivers. So I know I have some measure of skill. Training-wise, I'd say I have about three year's worth of experience, since I've had my license for about two and a half years now, and I had my learner's permit for a year beforehand. Controlling a car has never been a problem for me. I can buzz through gaps that most people wouldn't be willing to even try to ease through (static gaps between things like telephone poles and shopping carts, not gaps in traffic, I'm not that reckless). And I'm very analytical, for the most part. My situational awareness is ridiculous, due to my ADHD; nothing gets filtered out, ever. Being analytical is the very trait that led me to this forum. I know that many, if not all, of the doors to racing are closed to me at the moment, so I came here to gather knowledge and advice from people experienced in the industry. And keep in mind that I never said I have no money. I'm on a very tight budget, but I make around $500-$600 a month. So please, don't tell me to "go back and choose some richer parents". I'm here to learn, and maybe eventually contribute something useful; I'm certainly not here to be scoffed at.

Also, I invite you to sit in the passenger seat of my car and tell me I'm not a better than average driver. I promise I wouldn't wrap the car around a tree or anything. I'd just give you a ride better than you'd expect possible in that car.

Originally Posted by pkeegs

I get the impression that a decent karting setup is cheaper than a decent rallying setup, so I've been figuring that if I can get myself a kart, helmet, suit, gloves, boots, etc., I can demonstrate my ability and possibly get sponsorship.

Trying a few track days makes sense, though... do you know if there are any good tracks near NYC with loaner/renter karts and equipment?

And yeah, I don't think it's fair of me to risk other persons' welfare in the interests of going fast.

Thank you for being so responsive, by the way, I appreciate it.

All kart tracks will loan you a kart.

But that's not what I mean. I mean a track day, where you take your own road car and drive it around the track as fast as you like.

I'd assumed you were in the UK they are very common here. For USA, no idea.

Originally Posted by pkeegs

Fair enough. I'm aware that karts also require extra equipment, which means more money. Thanks for the tip on Autocross, I'll probably end up pursuing that. And yeah, you're right, I don't actually know I'm fast in comparison to other racers. I have a strong feeling, based on what I know I can do in a cheap car in different circumstances than would occur in a race. I'll have to try and see what happens in the field, rather than racing on the streets.



Think you could have been a little more harsh? I know that I'm much better than the average lay driver, at the very, very least. My friends are the kind of people who own Golf GTIs, WRX STIs, plain old Imprezas, Eclipses and the like, and I've never, ever even come close to losing a race to them--bear in mind that I drive a 4-cylinder, 4-door 2007 Accord, and I'm going against those cars. And my friends are fantastic drivers. So I know I have some measure of skill. Training-wise, I'd say I have about three year's worth of experience, since I've had my license for about two and a half years now, and I had my learner's permit for a year beforehand. Controlling a car has never been a problem for me. I can buzz through gaps that most people wouldn't be willing to even try to ease through (static gaps between things like telephone poles and shopping carts, not gaps in traffic, I'm not that reckless). And I'm very analytical, for the most part. My situational awareness is ridiculous, due to my ADHD; nothing gets filtered out, ever. Being analytical is the very trait that led me to this forum. I know that many, if not all, of the doors to racing are closed to me at the moment, so I came here to gather knowledge and advice from people experienced in the industry. And keep in mind that I never said I have no money. I'm on a very tight budget, but I make around $500-$600 a month. So please, don't tell me to "go back and choose some richer parents". I'm here to learn, and maybe eventually contribute something useful; I'm certainly not here to be scoffed at.

Also, I invite you to sit in the passenger seat of my car and tell me I'm not a better than average driver. I promise I wouldn't wrap the car around a tree or anything. I'd just give you a ride better than you'd expect possible in that car.

You cannot possibly know that until you get to the likes of a track day or karting event and give it a go.

Personally, I can drive faster than most people on the road are going if I feel like it. Does that make me a good racing driver? No, I'd suck!

So you'll have to spend some money, no choice.

Hi and welcome to the forum, as Mark says above.. the public roads/non competition drivers are not really worthy of comparing yourself against.. not only that you could end up killing innocent people in the process so please only compete in a safe environment.

You dont really have an idea how quick you are or could be until you start racing at club level among similar minded people. I used to often win any indoor karting events I attended and a good few years ago was also was one of the top 3 Toca 3 DTM Sim mode racers online.. and had some fantastic battles.. does that make me an exceptional driver? No, far from it.. I'm just among the quickest from a relatively small slice of the population. A few years ago I tried my hand at a club level karting race with a kart I borrowed but I started getting lapped half way through the race and actually felt that finishing third from last was a great effort.. lol so if you do try karting dont be downhearted when you get blown into the weeds.. these guys are usually looking for tenths even hundredths at corners while you are often left simply learning the lines and trying to piece them all together before even beginning to think about tinkering with the set-up.

If like me you dont have much of a disposable budget why not get/build yourself a decent PC with a triple monitor set-up, a sim wheel with force feedback such as a Fanatec CSR with some V1 Clubsport pedals which actually feature a loadcell for measuring brake pressure unlike other pedal sets which usually only have a potentiometer for measuring pedal distance travelled. Then try your hand at RSRBR12 (A Richard Burns Rally mod) or one of the various PC racing sims on the market ie, RFactor iracing etc. In the long run It will cost you a fraction of the cost of karting, it will be a lot of fun and very rewarding as you continue to improve with experience.. and if you are as good as you think you are you will soon start winning races.

Here is a vid of rFactor2 beta '68 F1 Monaco sim.. no aero.. and my idea of proper fun! race sim cockpit 20120126 rFactor2 beta '68 F1 Monaco - YouTube
Should give you an idea of the possibilities..

Originally Posted by pkeegs

In recent years--the past two, for the most part--I've taught myself to drive, and to handle a car in a way that many would expect to be near impossible, if not fully so. More precisely, I've taught myself to drive insane roads at insane speeds in Honda Accords; not the sportiest of cars, but sufficiently quick and maneuverable enough that I can keep up with a WRX STI on curvy, crumbling asphalt roads through the woods. I've also met the Governor of Speed in the car I currently drive, a 2007 Accord. He resides at 130 miles per hour. So I know I'm not slow, and I know how to push a car to the brink of its handling; how to feel the front tires through the wheel and all four through the seat of my pants; how to recognize when either the front or back of the car is slipping and correct for it (though I wouldn't be able to put any of these feelings or actions into words. Cars are all instinct for me); how to run a car until its brakes are red-hot, literally, without crashing into guardrails. I have the perfect skill-set for racing, along with the right mindset. I'm sorry about the shameless plugging--not so shameless, really, I'm terribly sorry for it. But it's all driving towards my point.

I've got a friend who works as an intensive care nurse. She's met loads of people like you.

Originally Posted by Mark

You cannot possibly know that until you get to the likes of a track day or karting event and give it a go.

Personally, I can drive faster than most people on the road are going if I feel like it. Does that make me a good racing driver? No, I'd suck!

So you'll have to spend some money, no choice.

I know I can't know how I'll fare in actual, legitimate competition until I go and do it; I said that myself in the my response to airshifter. And track days aren't really that common around here, though I know they have them in California and the Midwest. I know I'll have to spend money, but I
m trying to figure out how to spend the smallest amount possible.

Originally Posted by Zico

Hi and welcome to the forum, as Mark says above.. the public roads/non competition drivers are not really worthy of comparing yourself against.. not only that you could end up killing innocent people in the process so please only compete in a safe environment.

You dont really have an idea how quick you are or could be until you start racing at club level among similar minded people. I used to often win any indoor karting events I attended and a good few years ago was also was one of the top 3 Toca 3 DTM Sim mode racers online.. and had some fantastic battles.. does that make me an exceptional driver? No, far from it.. I'm just among the quickest from a relatively small slice of the population. A few years ago I tried my hand at a club level karting race with a kart I borrowed but I started getting lapped half way through the race and actually felt that finishing third from last was a great effort.. lol so if you do try karting dont be downhearted when you get blown into the weeds.. these guys are usually looking for tenths even hundredths at corners while you are often left simply learning the lines and trying to piece them all together before even beginning to think about tinkering with the set-up.

If like me you dont have much of a disposable budget why not get/build yourself a decent PC with a triple monitor set-up, a sim wheel with force feedback such as a Fanatec CSR with some V1 Clubsport pedals which actually feature a loadcell for measuring brake pressure unlike other pedal sets which usually only have a potentiometer for measuring pedal distance travelled. Then try your hand at RSRBR12 (A Richard Burns Rally mod) or one of the various PC racing sims on the market ie, RFactor iracing etc. In the long run It will cost you a fraction of the cost of karting, it will be a lot of fun and very rewarding as you continue to improve with experience.. and if you are as good as you think you are you will soon start winning races.

Here is a vid of rFactor2 beta '68 F1 Monaco sim.. no aero.. and my idea of proper fun! race sim cockpit 20120126 rFactor2 beta '68 F1 Monaco - YouTube
Should give you an idea of the possibilities..

Thanks for the welcome I've thought about sims, but I don't think I could stand that being my only racing experience, as much as I wish I could. It's nice to watch things go fast, but for me, driving is alllll about the feel, and even with a great force-feedback wheel, realistic-feeling and -acting pedals, and a realistic gearshift, that's impossible for a game to replicate. In regards to comparing myself against other drivers, I do that, but to a lesser extent than against myself. I don't drive like that on the open roads anymore, thankfully, but when I did, I got to the point where I myself was shaving hundredths off of my time around my neighborhood, which is a huge former retirement community arranged in a loop. I didn't have anything to compare those to, but I learned how to enter and leave different styles of turns, on different inclines, with different banking, in different conditions, etc. to reliably get around the "track", so to speak, at crazy speeds. I have a video somewhere that I took by placing my iPod against the windshield. If I find it, I'll post it here and to see what people think (with, of course, the disclaimer that I know I was being stupid and dangerous, and I don't engage in that type of behavior anymore). I also understand that learning one course doesn't necessarily translate easily to other courses, but certain rules of thumb (including that rules of thumb are unreliable at best in racing) can be distilled from even small amounts of experience. However, even if I'm the slowest person on the track, I'd rather deal with years of real racing without success than not race.

Originally Posted by Dave B

I've got a friend who works as an intensive care nurse. She's met loads of people like you.

Ha. Ha. Ha.
I've already said that I know driving like that has its risks, and I will say that if I had gotten into an accident, I would have deserved it. But it's not your place to tell me that. Especially not in the way you phrased it. You have no idea what I'm like. If you met me, you wouldn't believe I was pkeegs. You know what else I do in my free time? I play Scottish fiddle music and classical music on my violin; I sing; I read; I play with my dog; I try to get over my ex who dumped me out of nowhere after two years of dating, and who was the most important person in my life; I work in musical theatre, and definitely not for the money. You don't know me, don't go thinking you know what I'm like.

Your cheapest option will be to try some karting. Most places allow you to pay per lap.

Originally Posted by pkeegs

You don't know me, don't go thinking you know what I'm like.

Maybe so, but to be fair to Dave.. that is how you come across in your initial post.


With regards to your previous post that sims can not possibly come close to the real thing.. that is absolutely true but unless you do have a reasonable dissposable income its a pipe dream for a lot of us... and the next best thing is Sim racing.

Originally Posted by Mark

Your cheapest option will be to try some karting. Most places allow you to pay per lap.

Thanks man, I appreciate the help.

That goes for everyone else who contributed to this thread in a positive manner.

Originally Posted by pkeegs

Ha. Ha. Ha.

Oh I'm not joking.

You have no idea what I'm like.

You've told me all I need to know: you think it's acceptable to race on public roads and put others at risk. You justify it, like hundreds exactly like you, by claiming that you're special, that you're somehow gifted. There are hospitals and graveyards filled with people just like you who don't think the rules apply to them, that they can somehow rise about the mediocrity. You think you're gifted: go to a track day or a kart circuit and test yourself in controlled conditions with appropriate safety measures. Who knows, you might be right and I've just exchanged posts with the next Senna or Loeb. But don't race on public roads and expect any respect whatsoever from me.

Originally Posted by Dave B

Oh I'm not joking.


You've told me all I need to know: you think it's acceptable to race on public roads and put others at risk. You justify it, like hundreds exactly like you, by claiming that you're special, that you're somehow gifted. There are hospitals and graveyards filled with people just like you who don't think the rules apply to them, that they can somehow rise about the mediocrity. You think you're gifted: go to a track day or a kart circuit and test yourself in controlled conditions with appropriate safety measures. Who knows, you might be right and I've just exchanged posts with the next Senna or Loeb. But don't race on public roads and expect any respect whatsoever from me.

Dave you mean old Pommie b*#!!?~~ don't you know we're all special, each unique like a snow flake, special among millions?
Well we are all special and unique, and the boy is special. He said so.

I agree he sounds similar, no, he sounds IDENTICAL, same phrases, same justifications , same assurances same whining as hundreds of other whiney boys to the point I wonder if he is real or a computer program written to wind up motorsport fans by dropping the known key words "I race my buddies on the back roads, I know I am exceptionally fast cause i beat my friend in a Wrecks" ---(of course the mere fact that your friend is stupid, and young and has been driving maybe 2 years and thus massively inexperienced escaped your notice because you are young and stupid and inexperienced).

In fact I think the only thing worth any discussion is the eerie exact phrasing of the delusions...

Because he---and all those other boys saying they're unique---are delusional.
This kid at 18 1/2 max never having raced anything, how do they all come up with the mistaken impression that they "exceptional"?

I wonder if Emmerson Manfalplaldi knows that far and away the No1 cause of death for boys 14-26 years old by a long shot is motor vehicle accidents.....a huge portion of which are single car---and that every one of those geniuses thought they were exceptionally good. including every one of those geniuses who killed 1-3 of their stupid friends who foolishly got in a car with them.

So the only interesting thing is :How do so many young guys become so convinced--with a total lack of any awareness or experience---that they have exception talents?