Thread: New here, never actually raced, but...

Originally Posted by Dave B

So to boil it down, your main points are that you've never crashed (yet), you've got a high IQ, you have a compulsion, and you're not putting anybody else at risk.

Taking them in order: (a) oh, you will, eventually. I'm glad that you at least recognise that you've been lucky thus far.

(b) So what? Your IQ means less than nothing when you stick a tyre in a bit of spilt diesel in the middle of the night. Your IQ won't help you if an animal jumps out in front of you when you're doing 100mph. If someone pulls out of a side road into your path then it doesn't matter if you've got the combined brainpower of Newton Einstein and Hawkin.

Do you have any understanding of the forces that go through a car when pushed to the kind of performance you talk about, let alone a road car which doesn't have performance parts? Do you think that your high IQ will be of any use if your brakes decide not to work because they're overcooked? How will your IQ help you if one of your tyres grows bored of having a sidewall? There's a reason that competition cars have a buttload of safety gear.

(c) You're not addicted, you don't have any psychological reason for your behaviour, you're a boy barely out of your teens. I get that: you like speed, adrenaline and thrills just like millions of your peers. There's nothing wrong with that, but you need to find an outlet for your desires and not try hiding behind a pseudo-medical diagnosis. If you genuinely believe you have a form of addiction then go and see your doctor or a therapist.

(d) This is the biggy for me. You are putting others at risk no matter how deserted you may believe the road to be. You simply can not guarantee that you won't meet another road user, and they will not be prepared to meet you at crazy speeds. You have to assume that there's a moron round every corner, no matter how good you may believe your own driving to be.

Look, I'm sure you're a good kid who would genuinely enjoy a bit of competition motorsport; and like I said earlier who knows, you might actually be good at it. I think the reason some of us are giving you a hard time is that we've been involved in motorsport in one form or another. Me, I knew after about 5 kart races as a teenager that I was never going to get anywhere so I started writing about it. Others on here have competed, marshalled, organised or simply watched on as fans. We've all seen crashes at close quarters and I'll tell you something: it's never pleasant.

You simply can not assume that your skill will see you right. I've watched world champions crash. I've been on the other side of the Armco when drivers with years of experience and trophy cabinets the size of Belgium have been caught out, whether through their own mistakes or other peoples', or by mechanical failure, or an unexpected patch of oil. The reason they're all still around to tell the tale is that they drive cars built to the highest of safety standards, and fitted with internationally recognised safety kit. They drive them in an environment designed to minimise the risk of serious injury; and at venues attended by marshals who can be on the scene in seconds, backed up by medics and rescue teams. I know people who literally owe their lives to the intervention they received after a crash.

I'm not here to have a go at you, merely to encourage you to seriously consider the risks of your behaviour and to stop before you put yourself or others in harm's way. If you want to go racing or rallying then admittedly it's never cheap, but you can have a huge amount of fun on a very tight budget if you're sensible.

If you're even a fraction as good as you say you are then maybe you'll attract some sponsorship and be able to live your dream, but a good first step would be to make sure you live long enough to find out.

This.

To be fair to the kid though, he's asking for ways to get on track and off the roads so at least he's doing something to limit the danger to others. Thats a little more than the other second coming of Michael Schumacher 18 year olds are prepared to do.

Karting or autocross is probably the best way to start, except for turn up and drive karting events. Beating the local photocopier salesmen on their annual day out won't teach you anything about how good you are, you need to be up against people with previous racing experience.

Originally Posted by Starter

I shame more of us can't try and be fair. Some like to bash a new poster (after an admittedly poor first post) and then, when the new guy puts up an apology instead of just going away, they bash them some more. Nice welcome for new members guys and good work.

Well, I am just about to reply to him

Originally Posted by pkeegs

Hey everyone! I'm the new guy in town. So, a little bit about me, and why I'm here.

Hello.

Along with all that, I have certain neurological, psychological, and developmental issues that make traditional schooling nigh on impossible for me to complete. I often don't learn well in a classroom setting, and my ADHD, along with executive dysfunction,

Executive dysfunction. Thank god I reread that

make doing homework a task to dwarf the building of the Colosseum. So racing, besides being my passion, is one of my very few opportunities to have a successful career in a field that pays well when done well.

How many people atually get paid for racing? Not that many, most just spend loads of money on it without ever getting any success.

Originally Posted by Mark

You cannot possibly know that until you get to the likes of a track day or karting event and give it a go.

Personally, I can drive faster than most people on the road are going if I feel like it. Does that make me a good racing driver? No, I'd suck!

So you'll have to spend some money, no choice.

Yeah, every boy racer thinks he has the talent to beat the likes of Loeb. The reality is that most of those boyracers are just average. In fact, I could probably beat him in a rally car, but unfortunately I know well enough that there are guys out there who would destroy me in rally and I am not talking about guys like Loeb.

Originally Posted by Dave B

I've got a friend who works as an intensive care nurse. She's met loads of people like you.

hahaha

Originally Posted by pkeegs

Yeah, I guess you're right on all counts, haha. In regards to the way Dave responded, I can understand having those thoughts, but I don't deserve the way he's treating me. And pertaining to sims, yeah, I may need to just use them. =/ Oh well, better than nothing.

If you open with such a post, be prepared to get replies that are not praise.

But don't judge me as a person based on stupid decisions I've made in the past.

You get one chance for life, you only have one life. Past mistakes will stay with you forever.

All of your points could have been proven in a more polite manner. I find it ironic that you say I'm "18 1/2 max", when I'm 20 and acting more mature than you.

You are 20 and you want to get into racing? Far too late and that is a fact really. No matter if we are talking about go-karting or rallying.

Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Actually he sounds exactly like the majority of white middle of middle class and up boys, and virtually 100% of boys from higher income backgrounds. That's why i said to Dave its so interesting the sameness in every detail.

Wow, a racist.

Originally Posted by Mark

You cannot possibly know that until you get to the likes of a track day or karting event and give it a go.

Personally, I can drive faster than most people on the road are going if I feel like it. Does that make me a good racing driver? No, I'd suck!

So you'll have to spend some money, no choice.

Originally Posted by pkeegs

Thanks man, I appreciate the help.

That goes for everyone else who contributed to this thread in a positive manner.

Mark gave you the best advice possible. Until you get on a closed track, you can't know how good of a driver, or even racer you are.

While it's wrong, I'm not going to chastise you about driving like a bat out of hell on public roads... only because I did it myself at your age (and maybe when I was a bit older too ). I love cars. And I've been lucky enough to own some really fast cars. I'm also a great driver (just ask me, and I'll tell you so! ). But you never know when you might meet some father of three on his way to work on that late night stretch of "empty" highway. You or he might drift into the other's lane and one or both of you wind up dead or disabled for life.

Maybe you're a faster, better driver than most... maybe not. But until you get yourself onto a closed circuit, you'll never really know. Plus, you can learn more once you take a class or two and get on track with other trained drivers. And here's a warning from another who thought that he knew more than he actually did: it's MUCH harder to unlearn bad habits than to learn good habits. So the sooner you take a few classes, the better off you'll be in the long run.

As for organizations, try NASA, as well as the SCCA. IMO, NASA is the more cost effective, if not fun option, unless you really do have an eye (and the funding) toward becoming a pro racer.

Oh yeah... the Alfa Disco Volante - sorry, but the Series 1 Jaguar E-type is the most beautiful car ever made (IMO). To each his own, but while the new Volante has some interesting lines, it looks somewhat "confused" in its styling, to my eyes. It's not ugly, but not in the same beauty contest with the XKE... again, in my opinion.

Good luck to you though. And welcome to the board.

Originally Posted by Starter

I didn't mention NASA, though they are slightly cheaper, because their safety standards at the track are poor at best. If I ever have a high speed crash on track, I prefer to have competent people who will respond properly.

True. But I was thinking that if he's tight on money (which he says that he is), it would be better to join NASA, and at least be on a closed circuit, than race on the highway.

Originally Posted by Starter

A shame more of us can't try and be fair. Some like to bash a new poster (after an admittedly poor first post) and then, when the new guy puts up an apology instead of just going away, they bash them some more. Nice welcome for new members guys and good work.

I was thinking the same. He even admitted openly that he sounded like a douche in his original post, and had openly admitted some of his actions weren't made using the most sound judgement. Cut the guy some slack and give some real advice, I'm sure most of us have done something stupid in our years driver, just many never admit it.

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

...You are 20 and you want to get into racing? Far too late and that is a fact really.....

Yep.

Keegs my boy, it’s time to face reality. At 20 years old, you’re far passed the point of entry into a successful income-generating motorsport career. Admit defeat and resign yourself, like many others here, to a future life on a well-worn couch watching videos of a Stratos screaming through the hills of southern France, with a bag of Cheetos by your side and a can of Budweiser resting precariously, but with proficiency that comes with many weekends of practice, on your ever-expanding belly.
It’s not quite the adrenalin rush to which you’re currently accustomed, but it does grow to be an amenable way to spend a Sunday afternoon following of course the usual chores of mowing the lawn and mending the swing set in the backyard in an effort to alleviate the growing irritation from the missus of consuming copious amounts of Polysporin on the kids’ ubiquitous contusions caused by your dodgy erection of the playset to begin with.

Chin up keegs, hang up the keys to the Asian pocket-rocket with the fart can and trade in for the minivan! you’ve much to look forward to!

I always wondered where Wade91 went...

If you are as great as you think you are, and your budget is tight, I could recommend motorcycle racing, specifically Forgotten Era, or the Classic Club we have in the UK, Im sure there will be an equivalent where you are.

Bikes like the old TZR250 still have competitive classes, and the bikes are available, numerous and cheap. By cheap, I mean that you could buy a good used one, and prepare it yourself for the track and still have change from £2k. Leathers, helmet etc is going to be another £1.5k. Entries to club race meetings will be from about £150 per meeting, depending on where it is, then you have travel to tracks, accommodation while you are there, fuel to get you from home to the tracks, tyres, servicing and other tinkering.

The trouble is, that even with a budget, racing is a way of life, paying for all this, and holding down a job to pay for it all is tough. Forget about relationships, or doing anything else. Add in to all this the fact that you are doing something which has a good chance of causing you significant injury, and you have to weigh up whether you are cut out to do it at all.

Wow... so, I've been replying to everyone individually until now, but there's no way I can reply to all this. Thanks so much for all the info and tips, guys, and for giving me a break on my bad start. I really, really appreciate it.

So I'll try to address as many of these replies as I can. Here goes...

Koz: Yeah, that possibility's been considered by my psychiatrists. I definitely have some Aspergian traits, and I have an uncle who has it. If I have it, it's mild; the reason it comes through so much is because of its combination with my bipolar disorder, which also interferes with the development and implementation of social skills. However, I'm rarely able to look anyone in the eye for more than a couple of seconds, so I'm pretty much positive that I have it, even though my 'rents disagree. In person, I've learned to either stare right next to the person's head, at their nose, or off into space with a look of deep contemplation, lol. The only "person" I can readily look into the eyes of is my dog, and weirdly enough, I'm the only person he locks eyes with also (except for strangers viewed as threats). Most would view that as being a challenge for dominance, but he listens to me more than he listens to anyone else in the family, and he always follows me around. It's almost like HE's autistic, if dogs can be so, ahah. I also get along very well with people who are diagnosed autistic, and they feel comfortable around me. So I believe you're correct.

Dave: (a) Thanks for acknowledging my acknowledging of my own good fortune... if that made any sense.
(b) The IQ thing was more specifically directed at John, as he seemed to be making (indirect) offhand remarks about my intelligence and, thus, my ability to comprehend the possible consequences of my own actions. He also used the word "exceptional" in a general sense to describe the way he perceived me as seeing myself, so I felt that it may be appropriate to go ahead and show that I do have some exceptional qualities, though they're few and far-between.
(c) I actually do have some psychological reasons for my behavior. I'm severely bipolar with psychotic features (luckily not in a violent fashion; the "psychotic features" label is due to my first manic episode, in which I hallucinated and was slightly delusional. I still managed to keep some sort of grip on reality, however, and got myself to the help I needed. I no longer have the hallucinations, nor do I have the delusions), and I also have moderate to severe ADHD. As I mentioned earlier, I also have a high potential for Asperger's/autism in general. So, psychologically, I'm not built for this world; at least not the way it is.
(d) Yeah, I know. That's one of the main reasons I want to get off the roads. I live in a town that's filled to the brim with old people, and they always go wide on their turns, sometimes to the point that they take half the opposite lane. Either that, or they cut in too much, again with the same result.
And as for the bit about everyone else having competed in motorsport--I understand your frustrations. Who knows, I might act hostile towards someone on a violinist forum saying that they could learn the violin quickly, had a knack for music, and wanted to be a professional. There's a certain value to newbies, in whatever fields, being challenged verbally/mentally by people established in those same fields. It filters out the people who will just clog up the system; the ones who don't really want to fully commit, but who will still sign up for things, requiring resources and time and effort to be put out for them with, essentially, a promise of no return at all.
Thank you for laying your thoughts out for me like that; it was extremely helpful.

MrJan: It's not that it's a "secret line"; I see other people drive it sometimes when I watch races. It works for them. The problem that I can foresee with it is that it's probably dangerous, and possibly not allowed as such--I'm talking about going into a corner at a higher speed than normal, and more towards the inside, slamming on the brakes perfectly at threshold, ending up with your front end right next to the left side of another racer's rear; when everyone's slowed down with just a little breathing room between actual speed and maximum cornering speed, you speed up to your max speed in that area, forcing yourself next to the other racer; they'll brake, then you'll pop out of the corner at a higher speed than the guy you just passed, giving you the opportunity to cut in front of him (or her) and hold your position. It's not all about acting like you have the biggest cojones, but it helps. Also, I've never driven a stick, but I've used a clutch system on some machine somewhere--I forget what it was. I understand how it's supposed to work and, to a certain degree, how it's supposed to feel. I'd probably stall my first time or driving a stick, but beyond that, I'd probably get the hang of it extremely quickly. I'm good at converting a feeling from the clutch lever or pedal in my hand or foot into a visual of how the flywheel is being engaged.

Zico: Nope... Just curious, should I be worried about these similarities?

Malbec: Thanks for the credit, though I'm not sure I should get any; I think it should be standard for even people like me to try to drive safely.
And yeah, I've decided to try karting; I'm going to contact LIKE (Long Island Karting Association) after posting this. It's in my plans to specifically make sure I'm not put against people who are there as a casual hobby or for an occasional jaunt. I want to either be on that track alone, getting seat time, or be on that track with seasoned racers, comparing my own skills, techniques, etc. to theirs.

Starter: I know you weren't talking to me, but yeah, that happens everywhere. It's a shame. I've caught myself doing it at least once. It's easy to get carried away on the Internet, when you have words to use but not faces to tell you when to STFU.
BTW, thanks for the support. I appreciate it.

Garry: Yay! Replies are awesome.
Hahahahaha, fair enough, I may phrase that differently, even though executive dysfunction is what it's called.
I knowww. I'm going to have to make myself into a, well, exceptional racer, then, though that word may be viewed as controversial in this thread.
I was prepared for somewhat peeved replies, but some people were just plain mean. Not even simply rude, but they seemed to actively be trying to make my day worse.
Yeah... I already have a few past mistakes that I'm not proud of, but once those mistakes have been made, the person's attitude about those mistakes should be taken into account when replying.
This is the first opportunity I've ever had to even possibly go into racing; my parents wouldn't let me when I was younger. So now that I have the potential to get in, I'm trying to do so.
In regards to the racism: I know, right? I would have pointed that out if John decided to return.

Jag: Yeah, I'll check out NASA. The problem that I've had, though, with entry level autocross, and other types of competition that require cars rather than karts, is that I don't have access to a car that I'm allowed to use for that purpose. So I'm stuck either with karting, or with buying a car (there's one I can get for $200, but I don't even have $200 right now) and figuring out a way to pay for insurance, normal daily driving, racing, and maybe even the occasional creature comfort/date.
As far as driving technique goes; this may sound pompous--in fact, it will, so I apologize--but in life in general, I've so far been very adept at creating my own effective techniques for things. I understand that in driving, that can be dangerous, but I will only allow it to be dangerous to myself. I will not drive in such a way that I lose control of the vehicle. I will cautiously test the limits of any vehicle that's new to me, so I know what it can handle and how it will react to my actions. The danger to me would come from bad positioning in the vehicle, an incorrect grip on the wheel, and the like. If necessary, I can also teach myself to drive differently while racing, but as it is now, I'm willing to accept the risks that may come from bad technique.
Regarding the cars, I would have agreed with you until I saw the Disco. Once I saw it, I was a convert. The original E-Type is the only car that rivals it in my mind.

Starter and Jag, regarding NASA safety: I'm with you guys on that one. I'd rather do SCCA, because, you know, I want to survive and everything, but I'd be willing to sacrifice some safety for racing (I mean, of course, but beyond the dangers of SCCA).

Airshifter: I think that's my main issue here--admitting things without being asked. I'm bad at knowing what to filter out in a conversation. And thanks for the support.

Shmenke: Maybe it's far beyond the typical age of outset, but hell, I'm gonna try anyway. I've wanted it ever since I was little, and if I'd been allowed, I would have been racing since about 7 or 8. I may have to use a minivan at some point in my life, but I'll make sure it always has enough room for a kart in the back

Kneeslider: Again, it's that money. =/ I would probably love motorcycle racing, but as long as I'm living in my parents' house (there's literally no cheap housing near where I am), there's no way I'm even gonna be allowed to touch a motorcycle. I'm prepared for the way of life, if I can find a job and a low-cost apartment, though I'm not willing to set relationships aside. I'd just have to find someone who'd put up with all the time spent tinkering and anticipating and actually racing and doing all that. I'd wait somewhere around five years to find someone who would, but if nobody came along, I probably would drop racing. I need human contact as much as the rumble of an engine.

Kid, you really need to push away from the keyboard and stop writing..
You will never get a race licence if you disclose your huge array of problems and that is a good thing..

And you are obviously compelled to go on endlessly about your unfortunate problems..

They don't give licences out for 800 SAT---which I have seen you bring up on Psychology Today comments arguing with everybody there--- along with your astronomical IQ..
Those things don't count.

At least you have a real reason that you "coulda been a contender".....most people simply lack the will to make the choices to give up everything and work 80hrs a week towards what is VERY LIKELY a complete dead end for 10 years.

You're 20. Face it like an adult and accept your problems are too much to deal with AND do a sport so dependant on huge sums of money----unless there's a trust fund in the background you haven't mentioned.

Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Kid, you really need to push away from the keyboard and stop writing..
You will never get a race licence if you disclose your huge array of problems and that is a good thing..

And you are obviously compelled to go on endlessly about your unfortunate problems..

They don't give licences out for 800 SAT---which I have seen you bring up on Psychology Today comments arguing with everybody there--- along with your astronomical IQ..
Those things don't count.

At least you have a real reason that you "coulda been a contender".....most people simply lack the will to make the choices to give up everything and work 80hrs a week towards what is VERY LIKELY a complete dead end for 10 years.

You're 20. Face it like an adult and accept your problems are too much to deal with AND do a sport so dependant on huge sums of money----unless there's a trust fund in the background you haven't mentioned.

The last time I posted on psychologytoday.com, it was March 16 2011, and I had just come out of being ridiculously manic. I was making no sense, and I know that now. I decided to not go back for a reason.

I'm not saying they count in racing. I'm saying that they're things that I'm proud of, things I brought up as a push back against what I perceived to be a personal attack on myself, my intelligence included. In the moment, they seemed like valid things to bring into the conversation. Perhaps I should have PM'd the people who I felt were attacking me.

Some of the most successful people out there are more psychologically messed up than I am. The difference is only in what the parents would allow them to pursue when they were little.

I will admit, though, that I'm a complainer by nature. Don't know why. However, you seem more inclined than I to go on about my problems.

Also, I would not be dangerous on the track; I would follow all rules and regulations, as well as general etiquette, be it written or not.

I will, however, apologize to you if I argued with you on Psychology Today. Hell, I'll apologize that you even had to see those abominations of conversations I had there.

Very interesting dynamics in this thread:

Is he? Isn't he? Oh yes he is! Oh no he isn't!

Very articulate and complex and intriguing . . . specially for us that have never experienced the desire to make a living out of speed but that have experienced the thrill of almost being on two (of the four wheels appended to the vehicle) whilst taking a curve that looks oh so appetizing as we grabbed the steering wheel as if it were probably the last thing that we were ever going to do in our lives but was so well worth it.

Any way . . . . very interesting read.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by MrJan

Not read all the thread but you sound like a dick, and a dangerous one at that. Stop driving like a twat on the road and go to some sprints (I think the yanks call them autocross). If the US regs are anything like here in the UK then you can use pretty much any car and it'll show you how quick you really are up against other people (I guarantee that you are actually quite slow, driving quick on the track is completely different to going quick on the road). I did a hillclimb last week and there were single seat (F1 type) racers, saloon cars, Imprezas & Evos, spaceframe racers (Westfields and Caterham 7 type things, some with car engines, others with bike engines), a bloke in a FIAT 500 Arbarth and even a guy in a VW Lupo TDi. If you can't afford a car (one guy at a sprint I did had a £500 Kia Pride) then motorsport is the wrong hobby.

Interesting that you say you see the roads differently to everyone else and use different lines, what makes you think that you've tapped into a secret line different from the one that thousands of racing drivers have agreed on for decades?

Yes, autocross is also a viable option as well as hillclimbing.

Originally Posted by F1boat

Yes, autocross is also a viable option as well as hillclimbing.

Somehow I don't think the kid is going to get his excitement fix he needs driving around some little orange cones in a parking lot for 40 seconds in first and second gear driving maybe 60 km/hr...

And even there there are costs for entry and tires.......

At least suspension is easy for "auto-cross"---just fit springs 2 or 3 times stiffer than used on tarmac circuit racing---so stiff there is no need for dampers since the springs never move.
Or remove the springs altogether and ride on the bumpstops.

Hard to say if hillclimbs are an option since much of America is as flat as a table for thousands of miles....

Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Somehow I don't think the kid is going to get his excitement fix he needs driving around some little orange cones in a parking lot for 40 seconds in first and second gear driving maybe 60 km/hr...

And even there there are costs for entry and tires.......

At least suspension is easy for "auto-cross"---just fit springs 2 or 3 times stiffer than used on tarmac circuit racing---so stiff there is no need for dampers since the springs never move.
Or remove the springs altogether and ride on the bumpstops.

Hard to say if hillclimbs are an option since much of America is as flat as a table for thousands of miles....

We're talking about cheap motorsport so that's going to have to be the option. Anything more and you're talking thousands of dollars. Also I'm not sure what a proper autocross in the US is like but sprints here in the UK are significantly quicker than 60km/h, at a hillclimb I did the other week the single seat racers were hitting 130mph on the short straight, that's a buzz far in excess of anything on the road. It's also not about top speed, if you have a car on the very edge then it's exciting even if you're only doing 30mph.

Is this guy as genuine as you all believe ?From the read,which is only a small amount of what has been written,his writing is quite good for a 20 year old,and to me ,it all sounds like some one is having a laugh here !And I feel it is him having a laugh at you !

Originally Posted by driveace

Is this guy as genuine as you all believe ?From the read,which is only a small amount of what has been written,his writing is quite good for a 20 year old,and to me ,it all sounds like some one is having a laugh here !And I feel it is him having a laugh at you !

Quite good for a 20 year old? Is anyone under the age of 30 an idiot? **** me, at the age of 20 I had to write a 12,000 dissertation, you don't just crap out that many words without a few of them making sense.

Indeed, don't judge all 20 year olds by the average 20 year olds standards

Originally Posted by driveace

Is this guy as genuine as you all believe ?From the read,which is only a small amount of what has been written,his writing is quite good for a 20 year old,and to me ,it all sounds like some one is having a laugh here !And I feel it is him having a laugh at you !

Yes, the style reminds me of 'Wades' posts, I was expecting the mods to use the tools they have at their disposal but they are either also having a laugh by keeping stum or he is actually genuine.. either way I dont mind, it has been an amusing and interesting thread.


Pkeegs- As Mr Jan Yeo suggests, you should try and get some experience with a shifter, there is just so much more you can do with the cornering balance and braking with a shifter/clutch, ie, if you are good with smooth downshifting (heel/toe) you can reduce stopping distances by a large percentage. It also provides more engine braking which allows you to alter mid corner balance a lot more than you could with most autos.