Thread: Josef Stalin

I thought Poland started World War 2 in 1920?

I can't even begin to describe how warped the culture is, but then perhaps I shouldn't, as I'm Estonian and very biased.

Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

Or perhaps more generally, are there reasons why Stalin is not viewed as a total monster as Hitler is, besides the lack of Soviet records and the fact that the Soviets didn't start WW2?

"History is written by the winners"

Cue Eki and his Bush comments...

Originally Posted by schmenke

Cue Eki and his Bush comments...

I'd guess Eki likes Stalin even less than Bush..

It does make you wonder how bad things must be for some people in Russia today that they look back at Stalin's regime as a better time. There's usually a nostalgia for one's youth, though; no matter how bad things actually were at least you could still move all your joints.

There are two underlying cultural factors for Stalin's cult in Russia (and Belarus, to some extent). One is a pretty low value attached to the human life. Another is Russia's permanent want of "greatness". On the balance it means that if somebody expanded the borders of the country, he is regarded as a great, no matter how many human lives he screwed in the process.

Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

In Russia, Stalin enjoying a revival on school notebooks - Los Angeles Times

Do Russians have some warped culture where they're willing to embrace a man as "great" who killed millions under his rule?

Or perhaps more generally, are there reasons why Stalin is not viewed as a total monster as Hitler is, besides the lack of Soviet records and the fact that the Soviets didn't start WW2?

If Hitler had won the World War 2, he now likely would have been voted for the greatest German ever. He lost, so he's now just a big pathetic loser in the eyes of the Germans.

Originally Posted by Eki

If Hitler had won the World War 2, he now likely would have been voted for the greatest German ever. He lost, so he's now just a big pathetic loser in the eyes of the Germans.

No vote would have been held. The propaganda machine would have made him the greatest German ever by default.

Originally Posted by Rudy Tamasz

There are two underlying cultural factors for Stalin's cult in Russia (and Belarus, to some extent). One is a pretty low value attached to the human life. Another is Russia's permanent want of "greatness". On the balance it means that if somebody expanded the borders of the country, he is regarded as a great, no matter how many human lives he screwed in the process.

Which, in part, explains the historical “greatness” of some of Stalins predecessors, notably Nicholas II, Catherine the Great (although she was moderate by comparison), and even previously, Ivan IV.

Hitler people killed people next door.

Stalin, Pol Pot, Mugabe etc. kill their own people and the world is sort of alright with that. Pol Pot especially probably killed about 3 million people and his his punishment was to be put under house arrest and watch Corrie and eat scones and jam with nice cup of Earl Grey tea.

Originally Posted by Rollo

Stalin, Pol Pot, Mugabe etc. kill their own people and the world is sort of alright with that.

Thankfully, I don't think that's the case.

There's a campaign in Russia to put dear papa-Stalin also on buses, to commemorate the victory in the "Great Fatherland War" (aka WW2). In early May, these are supposed to appear in about a dozen Russian cities, as well as Kiev, Minsk, Riga, and Tallinn. Well, I dare say they won't appear in Riga and Tallinn.

Originally Posted by Rudy Tamasz

There are two underlying cultural factors for Stalin's cult in Russia (and Belarus, to some extent). One is a pretty low value attached to the human life. Another is Russia's permanent want of "greatness". On the balance it means that if somebody expanded the borders of the country, he is regarded as a great, no matter how many human lives he screwed in the process.

I think you're spot on. It's very sad, almost laughable, to see how a lot of Russians are apparently impressed by the likes of Putin's attempts at miltary muscle-flexing, when in fact the Russian military is in an appalling state.

Originally Posted by wiruwiru

There's a campaign in Russia to put dear papa-Stalin also on buses, to commemorate the victory in the "Great Fatherland War" (aka WW2). In early May, these are supposed to appear in about a dozen Russian cities, as well as Kiev, Minsk, Riga, and Tallinn. Well, I dare say they won't appear in Riga and Tallinn.

Crazy.

Originally Posted by Rudy Tamasz

There are two underlying cultural factors for Stalin's cult in Russia (and Belarus, to some extent). One is a pretty low value attached to the human life. Another is Russia's permanent want of "greatness". On the balance it means that if somebody expanded the borders of the country, he is regarded as a great, no matter how many human lives he screwed in the process.

Great comment. It is very sad that so many people value "greatness" more than the human life and dignity.

Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

Or perhaps more generally, are there reasons why Stalin is not viewed as a total monster as Hitler is, besides the lack of Soviet records and the fact that the Soviets didn't start WW2?

Don't forget that russians still think Soviets freed Europe from facists, when in fact it was like saving someone from rape only to rape that person again. When russian textbooks still make little mention of the crimes committed by Stalin and give an otherwise warped picture of WW2, then it is no surprise. Of course, blame lies on western countries as well. Communism should be condemned and equalled with nazism. As for starting WW2, USSR was at least as much to blame for it as Germany.

Originally Posted by wiruwiru

There's a campaign in Russia to put dear papa-Stalin also on buses, to commemorate the victory in the "Great Fatherland War" (aka WW2). In early May, these are supposed to appear in about a dozen Russian cities, as well as Kiev, Minsk, Riga, and Tallinn. Well, I dare say they won't appear in Riga and Tallinn.

Ah, think I will use that picture of Stalin as a target the next time I go shooting.

Originally Posted by BDunnell

I think you're spot on. It's very sad, almost laughable, to see how a lot of Russians are apparently impressed by the likes of Putin's attempts at miltary muscle-flexing, when in fact the Russian military is in an appalling state.

Appalling might the state of it be, but it is still a danger. No reason to underrate the strength of their army.

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Communism should be condemned and equalled with nazism. As for starting WW2, USSR was at least as much to blame for it as Germany.

But then why mr. Churchill and Mr. Roosevelt didn't take these into account at Yalta conference?

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

As for starting WW2, USSR was at least as much to blame for it as Germany.

In what way?

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Appalling might the state of it be, but it is still a danger. No reason to underrate the strength of their army.

Why? I think they are more a danger to their own people and those of former Soviet states than they are the West.