Is This Really Racism/Bigotry?

**ICWS** · 27th Mar 11, 08:44

1st video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyITKlmw1-w

This video features a segment from a episode of O'Reilly Factor broadcasted on March 18th. Juan Williams filled in for Bill O'Reilly that night, and had this interview with Occidental College professor Caroline Heldman. The two were mostly engaging in a debate about whether to defund National Public Radio (NPR) or not. Towards the end of the video, Mrs. Heldman harkened back to Williams' firing from NPR, due to Williams admitting on Fox News that he gets nervous/worried if he flies on a plane with Arab passengers that have Muslim garb on. Heldman used that situation to label Williams as a racist and a bigot and to justify why NPR chose to punish Williams, and remarked "If I were to say that I clutch my purse every time I walk by a black man, that may resonate with a lot of Americans, it might be their truth, but it's a bigoted statement". Williams disagreed with Heldman saying that it's unreasonable to think someone is a bigot/racist for feeling a little nervous when they walking into an area with a thuggish-looking young black man there. Williams further admitted that, even as a black man himself, he gets a little worried/nervous when he finds himself in an area with black men who look like they're up to no good, especially considering the amount of "black on black" crime in the United States. Heldman proceeded to call Williams a bigot for admitting that.

2nd video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya4XxKLGt9Y

This other video is a segment during the next episode of the O'Reilly Factor, where O'Reilly brought Williams, along Mary Katherine Ham, back on the show to re-analyze the segment with Caroline Heldman. O'Reilly stuck-up for Williams and went on to consider Heldman as a "Totalitarian Liberal", as Williams was interviewing someone who believed that no one should be allowed to say critical things about a minority ever, regardless if the criticism is accurate and based on facts, according to O'Reilly. Mary Katherine made the opinion that Mrs. Heldman is sensitive white liberal, who is excessive secure about racial issues, and desired to lecture Williams, a black man, about how to be sensitive to black people.

So, do anyone of you think Juan Williams is a bigot/racist for admitting such feelings about Arabs and black men?

**donKey jote** · 27th Mar 11, 09:03

Yes

**Eki** · 27th Mar 11, 09:19

As far as I know, none of the 9/11 terrorists wore a Muslim garb. Just like a man who looks like a secret agent is most certainly not a secret agent, a man who looks like a terrorist is most likely not a terrorist.

**Hondo** · 27th Mar 11, 09:37

What's your definition of racist? What's your definition of bigot?

**ICWS** · 27th Mar 11, 10:18

Originally Posted by Hondo

What's your definition of racist? What's your definition of bigot?

With some help from Dictionary.com...

1. Racist: Someone who has hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

2. Bigot: Someone who is intolerant of any different creed, belief, or opinion.

I would say that Williams is neither a racist or a bigot according to those definitions. I do believe that Williams is guilty of stereotyping, however. I think my fellow Americans on this forum, and maybe the other forum members from other nations, can agree with me that most people are guilty of stereotyping people (of other race, ethnicity, gender, social class, cliques, etc.) they don't know that well based off of appearance and and perceived behavior. The difference between most of these people who stereotype others and Juan Williams is that Williams is not afraid to admit that he harbors feelings of stereotyping people he doesn't know well, and thus gets called out on it and is labeled as racist and/or bigoted... I don't think it's racist or bigoted for a person to feel the way Williams feels about certain other people. In fact, I think it's quite natural for most people to feel that way.

**BDunnell** · 27th Mar 11, 11:37

Originally Posted by ICWS

I don't think it's racist or bigoted for a person to feel the way Williams feels about certain other people. In fact, I think it's quite natural for most people to feel that way.

I don't. To single out certain groups is, for one thing, totally inaccurate. Skin colour has no bearing on whether I feel concerned to walk near a group of people or not. Their behaviour, though, does.

**Captain VXR** · 27th Mar 11, 13:26

Originally Posted by Eki

As far as I know, none of the 9/11 terrorists wore a Muslim garb. Just like a man who looks like a secret agent is most certainly not a secret agent, a man who looks like a terrorist is most likely not a terrorist.

Some terrorists make it obvious that they are terrorists:

**BDunnell** · 27th Mar 11, 13:32

Originally Posted by Captain VXR

Some terrorists make it obvious that they are terrorists

It's the least they could do, really.

**Garry Walker** · 27th Mar 11, 13:39

Originally Posted by BDunnell

I don't. To single out certain groups is, for one thing, totally inaccurate. Skin colour has no bearing on whether I feel concerned to walk near a group of people or not. Their behaviour, though, does.

When you have the kind of crime rate as blacks do in America, it is quite obvious why people would be vary when seeing a black guy near him. There is nothing racist about it, simply normal human response to facts.
If blacks want that attitude lessened and consider it racist, well, they need to look at the mirror and think about why it is the way it is.

**Eki** · 27th Mar 11, 13:41

Originally Posted by Captain VXR

Some terrorists make it obvious that they are terrorists:

No, I think those are members of an Army, like the Irish Republican Army, since they wear uniforms. And I don't think anyone would let them board a passenger plane dressed like that, so they probably wouldn't even try.

Those rigging bombs in England and North Ireland probably weren't dressed like that while at it.

**BDunnell** · 27th Mar 11, 15:45

Originally Posted by Eki

No, I think those are members of an Army, like the Irish Republican Army, since they wear uniforms.

Let's not give the IRA any status beyond that of a terrorist organisation, Eki — and a very brutal one at that.

**Roamy** · 27th Mar 11, 17:05

Originally Posted by ICWS

With some help from Dictionary.com...

1. Racist: Someone who has hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

2. Bigot: Someone who is intolerant of any different creed, belief, or opinion.

I would say that Williams is neither a racist or a bigot according to those definitions. I do believe that Williams is guilty of stereotyping, however. I think my fellow Americans on this forum, and maybe the other forum members from other nations, can agree with me that most people are guilty of stereotyping people (of other race, ethnicity, gender, social class, cliques, etc.) they don't know that well based off of appearance and and perceived behavior. The difference between most of these people who stereotype others and Juan Williams is that Williams is not afraid to admit that he harbors feelings of stereotyping people he doesn't know well, and thus gets called out on it and is labeled as racist and/or bigoted... I don't think it's racist or bigoted for a person to feel the way Williams feels about certain other people. In fact, I think it's quite natural for most people to feel that way.

Racism and Bigotry is alive and well throughout the world. It is not going away and most people who use these terms to qualify others are usually full of sh!t and hypocrites.

**markabilly** · 27th Mar 11, 17:08

No, he just don't like Arabs

**BDunnell** · 27th Mar 11, 17:27

Originally Posted by Roamy

Racism and Bigotry is alive and well throughout the world. It is not going away and most people who use these terms to qualify others are usually full of sh!t and hypocrites.

And those who seek to deny that it is at all problematic are hardly paragons of human excellence themselves.

**markabilly** · 27th Mar 11, 17:32

well the most accurate way to look at this:

when we agree with them, it is because they know what they are talking about
when we disagree, it is because they are racist, stereotyping, paranoid morons who are hardly paragons of human excellence themselves.......

**motoramadanuk** · 27th Mar 11, 17:38

Are those UFF loyalist terorists from Nothern Ireland.

**motoramadanuk** · 28th Mar 11, 02:53

The IRA does not wear a uniform. In fact there is no such thing as the IRA. There was the PIRA, Real IRA, Official IRA and many others. No IRA and none that wore uniforms save for combat jackets.

Certainly nothing like the bottom three of this 'photo. Look more like the UFF or UDA.

**gloomyDAY** · 28th Mar 11, 03:14

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

When you have the kind of crime rate as blacks do in America, it is quite obvious why people would be vary when seeing a black guy near him. There is nothing racist about it, simply normal human response to facts.
If blacks want that attitude lessened and consider it racist, well, they need to look at the mirror and think about why it is the way it is.

Booya!

**Bob Riebe** · 28th Mar 11, 04:43

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

When you have the kind of crime rate as blacks do in America, it is quite obvious why people would be vary when seeing a black guy near him. There is nothing racist about it, simply normal human response to facts.
If blacks want that attitude lessened and consider it racist, well, they need to look at the mirror and think about why it is the way it is.

I agree but when people of ethnic or racial groups go into an area where they might encounter less than fully positive reactions, IF-IF they are truly afraid, and show it, unless they have to be there do not go. Stupidity has just rewards.

If they have to be there, act like you have neither fear, or actually many cares in the world. The father of my mixed race nephews and nieces, who ended up in the pen for an armed robbery gang, told me that I look like some one who is not full of fear and would probably have few problems in such areas.
At the same he came out and said that others who look like a deer caught in the head-lights, could very likely suffer either simply harassing, or violent criminal assault, depending on who was doing it.

About five years ago I was in North Minneapolis because they had great chicken shack there back then.(they are all gone replaced by some sanitary big-bucks place whose chicken tastes like any gas station chicken)
While waiting for my order, and getting some looks from the gents around there, I noticed they migrrated towards my parked car. Some sitting on the hood.
I walked out there, and said excuse me, I have to get in the car.
They moved over.
I reached in and got my coffee, which I had forgotten and informed them as I left that it was a shame to let good coffee get cold.
One fellow nodded and laughed as I walked back in.
Shortly after they all moved on.

This is an area where one week later and person was shot dead in broad daylight, on a store-front side-walk, one-half block away.
The news people were astonished that the police were not immediately called, and until some one finally called the police, people simply stepped over the dead body to go about their business.

While blacks have been the major cause of their own misery, but whites, and that includes, Latinos, should merely treat them like any other U.S. citizen, just do not act like a scared child, or arrogant jack-ass, while at the same time get an education and be informed about the area you are in. It can make life a lot easier.

**gloomyDAY** · 28th Mar 11, 04:52

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

I agree but when people of ethnic or racial groups go into an area where they might encounter less than fully positive reactions, IF-IF they are truly afraid, and show it, unless they have to be there do not go. Stupidity has just rewards.

If they have to be there, act like you have neither fear, or actually many cares in the world. The father of my mixed race nephews and nieces, who ended up in the pen for an armed robbery gang, told me that I look like some one who is not full of fear and would probably have few problems in such areas.
At the same he came out and said that others who look like a deer caught in the head-lights, could very likely suffer either simply harassing, or violent criminal assault, depending on who was doing it.

About five years ago I was in North Minneapolis because they had great chicken shack there back then.(they are all gone replaced by some sanitary big-bucks place whose chicken tastes like any gas station chicken)
While waiting for my order, and getting some looks from the gents around there, I noticed they migrrated towards my parked car. Some sitting on the hood.
I walked out there, and said excuse me, I have to get in the car.
They moved over.
I reached in and got my coffee, which I had forgotten and informed them as I left that it was a shame to let good coffee get cold.
One fellow nodded and laughed as I walked back in.
Shortly after they all moved on.

This is an area where one week later and person was shot dead in broad daylight, on a store-front side-walk, one-half block away.
The news people were astonished that the police were not immediately called, and until some one finally called the police, people simply stepped over the dead body to go about their business.

While blacks have been the major cause of their own misery, but whites, and that includes, Latinos, should merely treat them like any other U.S. citizen, just do not act like a scared child, or arrogant jack-ass, while at the same time get an education and be informed about the area you are in. It can make life a lot easier.