Thread: BRC to be two wheel drive only in 2012

I hear and appreciate the point you make concerning 2WD and driving talent but my question is...what abt 4WD?? and turbos?? Arent manufacturers shifting(however slowly) to turbos for efficiency and performance from their engines?? Isnt 4WD a proven technology in terms of its safety??? Why arent these options being explored all over in rallying, which is supposed to 'improve the breed'??? Ive got nothing against 2WD, I just dont think its the answer for rallying in the 21st century.....

Originally Posted by Spud

I hear and appreciate the point you make concerning 2WD and driving talent but my question is...what abt 4WD?? and turbos?? Arent manufacturers shifting(however slowly) to turbos for efficiency and performance from their engines?? Isnt 4WD a proven technology in terms of its safety??? Why arent these options being explored all over in rallying, which is supposed to 'improve the breed'??? Ive got nothing against 2WD, I just dont think its the answer for rallying in the 21st century.....

Well, as I said earlier, the problem is the exorbitant cost of four-wheel-drive equipment these days. This is why I think the BRC has probably chosen the best option given the circumstances, but I don't consider it the best option for the championship's future status, which will never amount to anything without a combination of good events, drivers people may have heard of, and what I'd call 'worthwhile' cars — a vague way of putting it, I know, but the best I can come up with. Another reason F2 worked for me as a BRC formula was the fact of there being an FIA cup for such cars, meaning there was at least some link between what you saw on British rallies and World Championship events.

Looking at the current Sunseeker entry list you could almost think that the BRC is 2wd this year!

Anyone know of any top entries still to enter and the Keith Cronin situation?

Thats just changed with Greer now entered in a Fabia S2000

Do You know if it's just one shot (maybe because the event is sponsored by Škoda UK) or if it's larger program?

Mirek he's bought the car which is ex Sandell so will be doing the BRC and other events with it.

Chris

Thank You!

I must say I like the idea of a 2WD only series.

What's happening to BRC here sounds a lot like what happened to the BTCC 20 years ago with the introduction of SuperTouring. Mainly two things:
- Flattening the class structure
- Homogenizing the cars within one class

And from my (limited) experience that means addressing two of points that create a lot of frustration for drivers and fans alike in rallying. Having too many classes makes for small and not very competitive class battles and complicated viewing for the fans, and pressing cars with very different concepts into one class doesn't have a good effect on the competitiveness of a class either. It's pretty much the same thing here in Germany - The Evo/WRX-teams complain about getting slaughtered by the Porsches, the Porsches complain about getting slaughtered by the S2000s and the S2000s complain about a lack of credible oppossition. In the end everybody loses. And when you separate them, you'll end up with relatively small classes again.

But when you only have very few classes, with a very narrow technical ruleset, you might end up with competitive and well-subscribed classes.

So, I really could see this having a similar effect on rallying in Great Britain as Supertouring had on touring car racing - what it takes, though, is a certain degree of manufacturer support. If the powers that be can find that, this rule change might be a very good thing and a model for some other European series.

Originally Posted by Andy_L

I must say I like the idea of a 2WD only series.

What's happening to BRC here sounds a lot like what happened to the BTCC 20 years ago with the introduction of SuperTouring. Mainly two things:
- Flattening the class structure
- Homogenizing the cars within one class

And from my (limited) experience that means addressing two of points that create a lot of frustration for drivers and fans alike in rallying. Having too many classes makes for small and not very competitive class battles and complicated viewing for the fans, and pressing cars with very different concepts into one class doesn't have a good effect on the competitiveness of a class either. It's pretty much the same thing here in Germany - The Evo/WRX-teams complain about getting slaughtered by the Porsches, the Porsches complain about getting slaughtered by the S2000s and the S2000s complain about a lack of credible oppossition. In the end everybody loses. And when you separate them, you'll end up with relatively small classes again.

But when you only have very few classes, with a very narrow technical ruleset, you might end up with competitive and well-subscribed classes.

So, I really could see this having a similar effect on rallying in Great Britain as Supertouring had on touring car racing - what it takes, though, is a certain degree of manufacturer support. If the powers that be can find that, this rule change might be a very good thing and a model for some other European series.

BTCC changed to a very attractive class with Super Touring , which provided great competition and therefore fights . This move replaces already boring cras ( exception Breen's Fiesta S2000 ) with even more dull cars on gravel ...

BTCC changed to a very attractive class with Super Touring , which provided great competition and therefore fights . This move replaces already boring cras ( exception Breen's Fiesta S2000 ) with even more dull cars on gravel ...

Supertouring only became attractive over the years, though. I supposse it was quite a shock going from the firebreathing Turbo-Sierras to the relatively tame 2l rep-mobiles of the early ST-years. Too bad there weren't any internet forums around in the early 90s, would be interesting to read what the fans thought about that move back then.

Originally Posted by Andy_L

Supertouring only became attractive over the years, though. I supposse it was quite a shock going from the firebreathing Turbo-Sierras to the relatively tame 2l rep-mobiles of the early ST-years. Too bad there weren't any internet forums around in the early 90s, would be interesting to read what the fans thought about that move back then.

Well, Tim Harvey was quoted at the time as saying 'If you want slow, close racing, there's always the Metro Challenge', and some drivers from the Cosworth era, like Mike Newman, basically decided not to compete any more after 1990 as they didn't find the two-litre cars sufficiently interesting. However, I think the two-litre class' racing in 1990, when it ran as the only other class apart from the Sierras, was suitably outstanding to convince the true enthusiast. I was watching some 1990 BTCC races on YouTube today, and was struck again by (a) how little action there was between the Cosworths compared with the M3s and Cavaliers, and (b) how the M3s and Cavaliers were able to mix it with the slower Sierras.

But we digress. I think your comparison is an interesting one, but there is a wider problem for the BRC. It has no public profile beyond the hard-core enthusiast. I probably couldn't name any current BRC driver, because I stopped following the series after the end of the Formula 2 era. The BTCC had excellent coverage when it made the switch and retained plenty of well-known drivers.

Yes, I simply can't believe BRC can get public attention again with only 2WD cars with no traction. F2 Kit Cars were something special in it's time, even though they were 2WD, they still were expensive hi-tech and very loud beasts.

Originally Posted by Mirek

Yes, I simply can't believe BRC can get public attention again with only 2WD cars with no traction. F2 Kit Cars were something special in it's time, even though they were 2WD, they still were expensive hi-tech and very loud beasts.

That wasn't really what I meant, at least. It might have a chance with works cars and decent drivers; otherwise, no.

It doesn't have a public profile!! And when even Rally fans can't work up much enthusiasm for it - you know it's in trouble!! I'd like to know what the Promoters are actually doing to promote the series - or maybe they've written it off as a 'bad job'.
It's sad the way it's gone - the F2 era was awesome, great looking, great sounding and really hard driven cars - doing proper events over at least 2 days. The SEAT Jim Clark Rally took over the whole of the town of Duns. A fantastic event!!
Now, quite a few are done in one day - that's not an International!!

Originally Posted by AndyRAC

It doesn't have a public profile!! And when even Rally fans can't work up much enthusiasm for it - you know it's in trouble!! I'd like to know what the Promoters are actually doing to promote the series - or maybe they've written it off as a 'bad job'.
It's sad the way it's gone - the F2 era was awesome, great looking, great sounding and really hard driven cars - doing proper events over at least 2 days. The SEAT Jim Clark Rally took over the whole of the town of Duns. A fantastic event!!
Now, quite a few are done in one day - that's not an International!!

You have to wonder if the BRC at least needs a healthy WRC.

Originally Posted by Daniel

You have to wonder if the BRC at least needs a healthy WRC.

And there we come back to some of my points earlier in this thread.

Originally Posted by Daniel

You have to wonder if the BRC at least needs a healthy WRC.

The BRC was at its most healthy before the WRC became popular - maybe the BRC needs the WRC to be cancelled!

Originally Posted by Steve Boyd

The BRC was at its most healthy before the WRC became popular - maybe the BRC needs the WRC to be cancelled!

I'm not sure the World Championship was any more 'popular' in, say, 2002, when the British series was certainly not healthy, than it was in 1983 when the British championship definitely was.

Looking at the entry list for the Trackrod Rally Yorkshire, there are only 4 drivers in the internationol rally with 4wd cars, there are more 4wd (and even WRC cars), in the Clubman event, so the 'village event' is probably better than the internatinol rally now.